North Stand Construction Discussion

Sid Snott said:
It's all here if anyone wants to trawl through
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It's not I'm afraid as the planning portal times out (presumably to stop spam attacks).

Enter the planning ref 136763/FO/2023 on the search page:-

Simple Search

pa.manchester.gov.uk pa.manchester.gov.uk

137999/FO/2023 is the application to relocate the 2 big screens.

136949/FO/2023 is the application to alter the concourse whilst work is ongoing I think.

136764/AOH/2023 is regarding the huge 3 screens on the outside of the extension and hotel.
 
Jacko1956 said:
This is just ground preparation work.from a separate planning application. The main construction work is scheduled to begin in November ! Unless a contractor had been annouched the main work is still out for tender although it seems Sisk are almost certain to get the job .
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Only Sisk are pricing.
 
Coatigan said:
I keep saying this, it all depends on what people consider as 'starting', and what 'main' means to them.

Both are technically right, there would have been works in October and November. And there have been works since June. There is no clear black and whit start, it overlaps. For example week 33 of the original programme (may have shifted, but as an example) there will be drainage works, roof removals, roof installation, and concourse installation all overlapping. Impossible to call anything in clear line terms. Other than the ultimate start and finish.
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You are right that ultimately there is a start and finish, but Sisk will have two contracts with two different sets of dates, the first impacts the second insofar as the majority of the works included in the first contract must be completed to allow the second to start. If those works overrun Sisk wont start on time and will in all likelihood look for a revised completion date as part of their second contract. Whereas City will push for a resequencing of the programme to complete certain aspects of the build first to allow occupation, and then complete other areas after say the stand is occupied. I expect there will be many sectional handovers not just the 4 specific elements.
 
bluesmith said:
You are right that ultimately there is a start and finish, but Sisk will have two contracts with two different sets of dates, the first impacts the second insofar as the majority of the works included in the first contract must be completed to allow the second to start. If those works overrun Sisk wont start on time and will in all likelihood look for a revised completion date as part of their second contract. Whereas City will push for a resequencing of the programme to complete certain aspects of the build first to allow occupation, and then complete other areas after say the stand is occupied. I expect there will be many sectional handovers not just the 4 specific elements.
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Yep, more or less what I was trying to say. That everything between when it started and when it finishes is more fluid than the terms used on here.
 
Coatigan said:
We'll probably never know, and the 300m 'investment' figure is the one that will probably be all that gets reported. I think it is a circa 200m build though, myself.
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Will be considerably above that imo. I'll probably know the figure soon. Sisk still haven't submitted their cost.
 
Coatigan said:
We'll probably never know, and the 300m 'investment' figure is the one that will probably be all that gets reported. I think it is a circa 200m build though, myself.
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Hard to know how much it will end up costing. General build costs have recently started to level out after constant increases post-Brexit and with the war in Ukraine. Steel costs and supply continue to be an issue though. The news regarding Everton's new ground suggests they're going to see an overall cost increase of 50% from the initial budget which I'd guess was down to material inflation as I'd expect they had fixed price contracts, but if you can't get the materials for the original price what can you do?!
 
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supercity88 said:
Hard to know how much it will end up costing. General build costs have recently started to level out after constant increases post-Brexit and with the war in Ukraine. Steel costs and supply continue to be an issue though. The news regarding Everton's new ground suggests they're going to see an overall cost increase of 50% from the initial budget which I'd guess was down to material inflation as I'd expect they had fixed price contracts, but if you can't get the materials for the original price what can you do?!
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Everton is interesting as it was done on a fixed cost, so any increases should have been down Laings. I think the costs were fixed mid way though the programme period (april 22) and the increase is associated with fixing the cost.
 
bluesmith said:
I

Everton is interesting as it was done on a fixed cost, so any increases should have been down Laings. I think the costs were fixed mid way though the programme period (april 22) and the increase is associated with fixing the cost.
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Yeah unless delays caused the price increases and Laings had a fair argument to ask for more cash. Usually you'd get some extra money as no one wants to drag anyone through the courts when there's a job to be done.
 
supercity88 said:
Hard to know how much it will end up costing. General build costs have recently started to level out after constant increases post-Brexit and with the war in Ukraine. Steel costs and supply continue to be an issue though. The news regarding Everton's new ground suggests they're going to see an overall cost increase of 50% from the initial budget which I'd guess was down to material inflation as I'd expect they had fixed price contracts, but if you can't get the materials for the original price what can you do?!
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bluesmith said:
Will be considerably above that imo. I'll probably know the figure soon. Sisk still haven't submitted their cost.
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Even then, taking that fluctuation and where costs are now, I struggle to see it going crazy, or over the 300m as some fear.

The way I see it, 65-70m for the hotel. 35-40m for the commercial block. Those two, the size and layout they are, even with the sails, is not that unreasonable. The stand is more complex and much harder to guess, say 60-65m for circa 15.5k m2, with a bit more for unknowns. Then there is the immediate city square partially open areas etc, to a 200m build cost. Then the fees, contingencies and infrastructure etc for the rest of the investment.

All obviously just my own opinion and how I see it at a very loose level. Appreciate people have different takes and experiences. Will watch with interest either way.
 
Coatigan said:
Even then, taking that fluctuation and where costs are now, I struggle to see it going crazy, or over the 300m as some fear.

The way I see it, 65-70m for the hotel. 35-40m for the commercial block. Those two, the size and layout they are, even with the sails, is not that unreasonable. The stand is more complex and much harder to guess, say 60-65m for circa 15.5k m2, with a bit more for unknowns. Then there is the immediate city square partially open areas etc, to a 200m build cost. Then the fees, contingencies and infrastructure etc for the rest of the investment.

All obviously just my own opinion and how I see it at a very loose level. Appreciate people have different takes and experiences. Will watch with interest either way.
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The stand will be nearer double that imo.
 
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