North Stand Construction Discussion

[Manchester33]

I don't particularly disagree with any of that. Other than, you have skipped 3 years into the future. This is by no means a done thing.

edit, lets flip it. The application doesn't involve any hospitality in that front area, and it is just a bar behind it, not coloured in purple. Everyone is happy, we can all pat each others on the back and look forward to this last chance atmospheric end.

Skip 3 years ahead and the club decide to use it for hospitality, out of nowhere.

Just because it is in this submission now, doesn't mean it is what you speculate. Just as if it wasnt, doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

Yep, agreed.

I have spoken to City and we're meeting with them to iron this out. Hopefully, it's a storm in a teacup. I will be stressing the point that hospitality is OK, but location is everything!

 

[Keeper!]

People have short memories

 

[Gordyola]

I think it's quite lazy. They're linking it to sails from the ship in our crest. Come on, they can do better?

Why not extend the City Centre contrast between old mills/modern glass? I'm no architect (clearly lol) but couldn't 'City Mill' be a better theme - glass cladding fan zone next to a Victorian themed hotel for example. That contrast of Old-heavy industry/modern sleek cladding is something people would associate with Manchester IMO.

(For want of better examples).

This is horrendous

 

[jrb]

That is now exactly what you are doing. I don't get how someone that has read so much on this and gone through so much of what is a available, can be so attached to one single outlook that you just can't help coming back to.

'The club shafted the supporters, ignored the questionnaires, stuck a 'corporate' section bang in the middle of the ground to price out normal fans and fill it with posh cunts who won't sing, and kill the atmosphere of the stadium.'

Then you get numerous posters offering you all sorts of possible (and likely) alternative takes, from real life experiences.
-you are speculating, the fans may not yet know the full intentions.
- the club may not yet know the full intentions
- fans that use joes/93.20 are still fans, they still contribute to the atmosphere.
-the price difference isn't the same degree as corporate
- it is set up as fluid and flexible, it says both hospitality AND GA (unlike other obvious hospitality areas).
- actually uses the description 'joes'.
- the seats are not shown any bigger or any further apart, literally the only difference is a direct access to a different bar
- that bar itself is laid out as just a basic bar, not a restaurant or corporate booths etc.
- the proposals may well predate the consultations with fans
- way too insignificant a change to make in a submission of this scale and complexity
- even if not, but unsure, probably easier to include now in the application than to add in, so including as a long term option to be decided later
- shows options for future safe standing
- there is 3 years to go yet, a lot can happen.
- demographics and ability to spend are not strictly linked or linnear. You get 18 year olds in GA glued to the fucking match day thread on their phone, you get focs in premium singing their hearts out.
- there are people half our age, that can spend a lot more money than us, so this image you have of older posh fans that don't take part is a bit singular.
- it is not corporate, it is hospitality.


And after ALL that, where do you find yourself right back?

'the club shafted the supporters, ignored questionnaires, the posh cunts will ruin the atmosphere for 'normal' fans'.



Maybe you are right. I'm open to all or some of the above also being right, and will see in 3+ years.

Apart from everything else you've accused me of posting, when did I ever refer to City fans who go into hospitality as 'posh cunts'? Feel free to quote me and repost it.

Regardless if you agree or not, don't like what I post, find what I post repetitive, amongst everything I've posted from the PA, my now boring point about the hospitality section being in the wrong place on L2 still stands. And there are a lot of people on here who agree with me on that point.

As you and others know, I have been fully supportive of the proposal from day one, bar the boxed shaped hotel design, on here and on the fans consultation form. But if you want to tie me down to that single issue, and nothing else I've added to this thread and the general discussion about the proposal, that's up to you.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

I can't be the only one who thinks the hotel looks absolutely hideous.
It will look utterly dated and doesn't match the design of the stadium at all.

I imagine it's the first glimpse of what the cladding will look like when it goes up around the stadium!

 

[HelloCity]

Yep, agreed.

I have spoken to City and we're meeting with them to iron this out. Hopefully, it's a storm in a teacup. I will be stressing the point that hospitality is OK, but location is everything!

When you meet them make these points -

Hospitality at the front of the new tier may create a buffer between the lower and upper tiers meaning it would be like having 3 tiers instead of 2 - similar to the south stand.

Hospitality at the front of the new tier may impact fan groups being able to drop banners down.

There will likely be persistent standing in this tier so a hospitality experience there may not be ideal.

Say that these spots could be sold as ‘premium safe standing’ and not hospitality/corporate where those paying a bit extra get access to a better bar area (may already be the case as far as we know) etc.

 

[Manchester33]

When you meet them make these points -

Hospitality at the front of the new tier may create a buffer between the lower and upper tiers meaning it would be like having 3 tiers instead of 2 - similar to the south stand.

Hospitality at the front of the new tier may impact fan groups being able to drop banners down.

There will likely be persistent standing in this tier so a hospitality experience there may not be ideal.

Say that these spots could be sold as ‘premium safe standing’ and not hospitality/corporate where those paying a bit extra get access to a better bar area (may already be the case as far as we know) etc.

Yep, good points. Especially the premium safe standing - at least it sets the tone!
When I have the meeting date set I'll post in here and I'll try and take minutes to post here too.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Not really the point I was making,I was arguing the point that those fans aren’t normal fans yes £500 is a lot but somebody that has £500 isn’t suddenly a fan that automatically doesn’t want to join in songs, maybe it’s somebody that quit smoking and spends the £500 on the perks he’s the same fan that maybe 2 years ago couldn’t afford the £500 and sat in a cheaper block because they spent it on fags.
I admit its better if these 600 seats aren’t premium seats, but my argumant is if they are that £500 more doesn’t mean that the atmosphere is suddenly worse because the fans there have a bit more money and aren’t normal fans.

Of course they are normal city fans. I don’t think you can ignore the pricing though. It makes a massive difference, as it means lots of people are priced out. The average manc can’t afford £1450 season tickets, so why put similar seats at the front of a home end.

I’d argue the atmosphere would be worse with more expensive seats. Can you give me some examples where the atmosphere is better in more expensive seats?
Ss2 currently isn’t anywhere near as loud as ss1 or ss3.

You’re also pricing out most 18- 25 year olds if it’s similar prices. An age range that make lots of noise.

To me it makes no sense to put those seats there. There’s loads of other areas they could go. Make it affordable and accessible for all of our fans.

 

[pride in battle]

I'm not angry at all (just disappointed lol).

I can't stress enough that this is our last opportunity to create a brilliant atmosphere at the Etihad. The new North Stand could be our Yellow Wall. It was pitched to us as such.

Remembering we can put extra hospitality seats anywhere else in the ground, why would we put them in two of the most crucial parts of the new North Stand?

The seats at the front are key for linking NSL1+2. With that buffer of quieter fans (yes - hospitality seats ARE quieter than GA, any argument otherwise is pedantic) will fragment those tiers so we'll end up with what we currently have (SSL1 and SSL3 completely out of sync because they can't hear each other).

The seats on the back rows set the tone. The songs start from the back and carry forward.

So, again, my point is this... Why would the club put those hospitality seats (particularly the ones at the front) there? Why not along the sides or in the South Stand? If it HAS to go in NSL2, why not bunch it into one of the corners? Why does it need to be in such a prominent, important area?

Ultimately, (let's say those seats generate an extra £1k each per season) is the extra £650k per year worth it (to an organisation that makes hundreds of millions of £s pa)?

It's complete and utter greed and to insinuate that your average 25 year old City fan and his mates are going to buy tickets there is laughable - yes, you might be able to afford it now, but could you when you were a kid on the Kippax making a racket?

Of course they are normal city fans. I don’t think you can ignore the pricing though. It makes a massive difference, as it means lots of people are priced out. The average manc can’t afford £1450 season tickets, so why put similar seats at the front of a home end.

I’d argue the atmosphere would be worse with more expensive seats. Can you give me some examples where the atmosphere is better in more expensive seats?
Ss2 currently isn’t anywhere near as loud as ss1 or ss3.

You’re also pricing out most 18- 25 year olds if it’s similar prices. An age range that make lots of noise.

To me it makes no sense to put those seats there. There’s loads of other areas they could go. Make it affordable and accessible for all of our fans.

Loads near me in the south stand aged 18-25 hardly sing, it's still a lot of us FOC who are doing the leg work, sing in the concourse and new bar then fuck all in the stands where we need it...bizarre...

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

The hotel just needs to be functional, not sure why everyone thinks we were going to end up with something extraordinary when the design has to be limited in height, doesn’t have decent waterfront surroundings and is facing northwards overlooking a pretty bleak view.

The landscaping will be more important and if the wave pattern is a clue to the eventual stadium cladding it might look pretty good.