North Stand Construction Discussion

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

This is where we’re going wrong.

A big problem right now is that the atmosphere is broken up over multiple tiers rather than congregated within the same area where the noise can be channeled.

There’s absolutely no point in having an expanded 2nd tier if the singers are broken up over multiple tiers. That’s exactly the same situation as we have now where we have a block is SS1 and people in SS3.

If it’s over two tiers we’ll have people in NS1 singing one song and people in NS2 singing another. It’ll be crap and a complete waste of a great opportunity.

Unfortunately it sounds like egos and a lack of knowledge, understanding or know how will kill this chance at an atmosphere.

I agree with this. If we have safe standing in level 1 north stand we won’t have a proper home end. We’ll have a huge 2nd tier where everyone will be sat down..

We need the home end to be in the 2nd tier, with safe standing in. Get all the singers into one place

The post your talking about also mentioned about Tifos being easier to make in tier 1, surely they would be miles better in across a larger stand.

 

[jrb]

I agree with this. If we have safe standing in level 1 north stand we won’t have a proper home end. We’ll have a huge 2nd tier where everyone will be sat down..

We need the home end to be in the 2nd tier, with safe standing in. Get all the singers into one place

The post your talking about also mentioned about Tifos being easier to make in tier 1, surely they would be miles better in across a larger stand.

It’s a view and opinion like many others that have been expressed throughout the thread.

The poster that posted those views and opinions does have connections at the club. He puts a lot of his own time and effort into the displays, etc. He’s well respected by the people at the club who he works with on the displays, etc.

But that doesn’t mean his views and opinions on the North stand expansion will be acted upon by the club.

I keep on saying. Until the North stand expansion proposal is made public, non of using know the actual plans for the North stand expansion. 2 tiers, a hotel, a museum, and a covered City Square are rumoured, but that’s about it, unless somebody who is really ITK is going to spill the beans before the club make the North stand proposal public.

Even then the club won’t be announcing any specifics like a singing section, season ticket prices, match day tickets prices, etc. All that is years away and will only be made public during the construction of the North stand expansion.

 

[Manchester33]

This is where we’re going wrong.

A big problem right now is that the atmosphere is broken up over multiple tiers rather than congregated within the same area where the noise can be channeled.

There’s absolutely no point in having an expanded 2nd tier if the singers are broken up over multiple tiers. That’s exactly the same situation as we have now where we have a block is SS1 and people in SS3.

If it’s over two tiers we’ll have people in NS1 singing one song and people in NS2 singing another. It’ll be crap and a complete waste of a great opportunity.

Unfortunately it sounds like egos and a lack of knowledge, understanding or know how will kill this chance at an atmosphere.

If you’re insinuating that I have an ‘ego and lack of knowledge’ you can do one! I’m posting off an anonymous account ffs!

Im just making the point that we shouldn’t limit a ‘singing section’ to a handful a blocks in one tier and pray that it makes the Etihad the most raucous ground on the planet. More of the stadium should be geared towards atmosphere. There needs to be a holistic approach that goes beyond ‘expand a stand and call it a singing section’.

You’re right that the expansion is a great opportunity to improve the atmosphere. If you feel as strongly about the atmosphere as I do, then make sure you get involved with the consultations. The club genuinely want to hear from passionate fans about the subject.

 

[Manchester33]

I agree with this. If we have safe standing in level 1 north stand we won’t have a proper home end. We’ll have a huge 2nd tier where everyone will be sat down..

We need the home end to be in the 2nd tier, with safe standing in. Get all the singers into one place

The post your talking about also mentioned about Tifos being easier to make in tier 1, surely they would be miles better in across a larger stand.

Having safe standing in NSL1 doesn’t mean seats in L2.

 

[HelloCity]

Having safe standing in NSL1 doesn’t mean seats in L2.

Surely you must realise though that splitting up the fans across tiers is an issue we have at the moment? The entire point of an extended 2nd tier is that it can bring everyone together. When you have fans split across multiple tiers you get some fans singing one song and some fans singing another. Then both tiers complain that they can’t hear each other. We’d just be swapping the south stand for the north stand.

Also, just imagine how good the banners and things would look laid out from the top to the bottom of an expanded 2nd tier. They’d look awesome.

 

[Manchester33]

Surely you must realise though that splitting up the fans across tiers is an issue we have at the moment? The entire point of an extended 2nd tier is that it can bring everyone together. When you have fans split across multiple tiers you get some fans singing one song and some fans singing another. Then both tiers complain that they can’t hear each other. We’d just be swapping the south stand for the north stand.

Also, just imagine how good the banners and things would look laid out from the top to the bottom of an expanded 2nd tier. They’d look awesome.

Lots of fans/singers simply won’t go in level 2 (want to be close to pitch). Others will want to stay next to away fans. There are singers in SSL1 and SSL3 who won’t move because they can’t be bothered or they like the people they sit round or some other excuse.

So no matter what, singers are going to remain split up. I do agree we need a section that leads the stadium, and I agree that an expanded NSL2 would be the perfect place. But we do need to be realistic. Without a holistic approach it won’t make a big enough difference.

I believe more of the stadium needs to be geared, so that crowd psychology encourages more ‘regular’ fans to be noisy. For example, more rail seating sections would help. There is no need for a labelled ‘family stand’ (there should be cheap kids tickets everywhere). We shouldn’t have corporate sections in the middle of two blocks that make all the noise etc.

Yes, banners/displays would be good in an extended NSL2. We need to ensure fans relocating to the new stand buy into that though. Even in block 115 we get people complaining if we wave flags before kick off. Again, I’d encourage you to offer your suggestions to the club when they do the fan consultations. More fans explaining that the atmosphere is important to them would make it difficult for the club to prioritise other aspirations for the extension.

 

[There is a Light]

The club need to get some real experts in to advise on this. Let’s face it, everyone got it wrong last time and it was a massive opportunity missed.

 

[Manchester33]

For what it’s worth, I’d happily move towards the back of the extended North Stand upper tier and organise (through the club) as many proper singers together to help lead the atmosphere.

I’m sure I’ll be doing this in the not too distant future.

I’ve organised around 20 singing sections for European games and trips to Wembley. I’ve recently requested permission to organise a singing section at the back of SSL3 (if the away team returns their tickets and frees up the space) to trial what type of difference the acoustics make (still waiting on the right opportunity though).

I’m not against making NSL2 the spearhead - but I’m just being realistic. Singers will ALWAYS be split up.

 

[Manchester33]

The club need to get some real experts in to advise on this. Let’s face it, everyone got it wrong last time and it was a massive opportunity missed.

‘Everyone’ didn’t get it wrong. 1894 spent months working on that relocation. The information we had prior to that relocation was:

- Security wouldn’t allow standing in level 3 (and would actively police it).

- Ticket prices would cost the same in both SSL1/SSL3 (or cheaper in SSL1).

- Flags on poles wouldn’t be permitted in upper tiers.

- Existing singers in blocks 117 onwards would remain there.

We also didn’t appreciate the difference the roof would make to the acoustics.

We had around 6/700 fans relocating to a singing section. Half of that number relocated to SSL3 when the club announced tickets were cheaper there and pulled the rug from under us!

It’s easy to look back with hindsight, but it’s not like 1894/supporters clubs made rash decisions - it was MONTHS of work including dozens of consultations with all kinds of different people.

Even though it could have gone better - the atmosphere is consistently better now thanks to the singing section in 115. I think people are deluding themselves thinking it was brilliant 10 years ago.

 

[HelloCity]

It sounds hokey but even just calling the expanded upper tier ‘The Kippax’ would make a lot of singers want to move there. It provides an instant emotional connection and people will feel good about telling others that they’re ‘in the Kippax’. You can imagine people saying ‘I wouldn’t mind moving to that new Kippax they’re building’ compared to ‘fancy moving to that new north stand?’.

 

[jrb]

Why is it that a few hundred ultras in the bottom of the away end on level 1 can make more noise than 1000’s of City fans in SSL1, never mind across the rest of the stadium? We’ve seen it on numerous occasions. The last time being Copenhagen in the CL.

The secret is getting a similar number of City fans together in 1 block/part of the ground.

As it Stand we’ve got small groups of singers and individual singers spread across SSL1, 111, 110, 109 and throughout the rest of the stadium.

Watch any European match and there is one common factor on the terraces. All the singers are together, mostly behind a goal. Numbers range from 100’s to 1000’s all stood together. We‘ve got 10, 20 singers together, if that, with other singers scattered across other blocks and stands. Put simply, we don’t have a large nucleolus of singers in 1 black and stand.

 

[jrb]

I won’t go into the reason why, but singers at the back of 115 have been moved out of there and have been forced to disperse to other parts of SSL1. Or as the club would argue, back to their seats. Stewards have now been put in that area. Without doubt that decision by the club has had a negative impact on the support from the South stand, and in-turn the atmosphere inside the Etihad. Those are the fine margins when it comes to creating an atmosphere at the Etihad.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

It's not rocket science. Why did lots of us go in the kippax?

It was standing, it was where the hardcore support went who wanted to make some noise, it was also the cheapest part of the stadium to get into.

Is it really that difficult to replicate those 3 things, in an expanded 2nd tier?

 

[jrb]

It's not rocket science. Why did lots of us go in the kippax?

It was standing, it was where the hardcore support went who wanted to make some noise, it was also the cheapest part of the stadium to get into.

Is it really that difficult to replicate those 3 things, in an expanded 2nd tier?

There’s a massive difference.

In the Kippax you turned up on the day and stood where you wanted to.

Long gone are the days when you could just turn up on the day, pay to get in, and find a place.

The club want to know everything about you before you can buy a ticket for a specific seat.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

There’s a massive difference.

In the Kippax you turned up on the day and stood where you wanted to.

Long gone are the days when you could just turn up on the day, pay to get in, and find a place.

The club want to know everything about you before you can buy a ticket for a specific seat.

I understand that, but that doesn't alter the criteria of standing, creating an atmosphere and pricing.

 

[jrb]

I understand that, but that doesn't alter the criteria of standing, creating an atmosphere and pricing.

It does.

It stops fans from standing with mates and fellow singers because seats are already sold out.

The club also charge for a citizens card on top of a match ticket.

1894 tried to get @ group of singers together in the middle of 115 for CL matches, but most of the seats were already sold to fans on the CL cup scheme.

It’s now impossible to get a group of singers together at the Etihad. Tickets for the remaining home games have nearly sold out.

The North stand expansion will give City 1 last opportunity to get the singers together. City need to sell season tickets to City fans who want sing and stand together in the expanded North stand.

 

[There is a Light]

‘Everyone’ didn’t get it wrong. 1894 spent months working on that relocation. The information we had prior to that relocation was:

- Security wouldn’t allow standing in level 3 (and would actively police it).

- Ticket prices would cost the same in both SSL1/SSL3 (or cheaper in SSL1).

- Flags on poles wouldn’t be permitted in upper tiers.

- Existing singers in blocks 117 onwards would remain there.

We also didn’t appreciate the difference the roof would make to the acoustics.

We had around 6/700 fans relocating to a singing section. Half of that number relocated to SSL3 when the club announced tickets were cheaper there and pulled the rug from under us!

It’s easy to look back with hindsight, but it’s not like 1894/supporters clubs made rash decisions - it was MONTHS of work including dozens of consultations with all kinds of different people.

Even though it could have gone better - the atmosphere is consistently better now thanks to the singing section in 115. I think people are deluding themselves thinking it was brilliant 10 years ago.

Fair enough mate, it wasn’t a dig at 1894 or anyone btw. I know the effort that’s been put in over the last 10 years and massively appreciate what you do as there’s not many others stepping up and giving up their own time to improve the atmosphere.

I was really optimistic, as I think most people were that it would have made a bigger difference though. It moved people away from 111 and as you say split some up into L3 and some in the lower tier, so whatever happened, it just didn’t work out. Not saying anyone’s responsible but that “new Kippax” feel just hasn’t happened.

Fully appreciate it really won’t have helped if you were told people can’t stand in level 3 (you can) and the rug was pulled when lower ticket prices were announced. That sounds like it would have shafted whatever plans you had and ruled out getting fans into the best place for making noise (the upper tier).

It’s a bit of a shame in hindsight though, as it sounds like the club weren’t clear with their plans and things could be so much better than they are now. Hopefully things like that won’t happen again (even if it is out of your control).

 

[christened at st marks]

Day's of the standing Kippax, it was a totally different fanbase,

No women apart from Helen
half a crown entry fee
only male working class
no tourists or fans from outside North of England
Violent terraces

Now endless families
barely any trouble
full of tourists and fans from all over UK and Ireland
It has now become a family outing
prices blocking hard up fans

 

[Keeper!]

It does.

It stops fans from standing with mates and fellow singers because seats are already sold out.

The club also charge for a citizens card on top of a match ticket.

1894 tried to get @ group of singers together in the middle of 115 for CL matches, but most of the seats were already sold to fans on the CL cup scheme.

It’s now impossible to get a group of singers together at the Etihad. Tickets for the remaining home games have nearly sold out.

The North stand expansion will give City 1 last opportunity to get the singers together. City need to sell season tickets to City fans who want sing and stand together in the expanded North stand.

True but I would also point out that the Kippax was often flat and had a poor atmosphere.

The game has changed and a lot of the passion once created on the terraces has long gone, sadly.

The only thing essential with the new stand is making tickets affordable and easy to obtain on a casual basis.

 

[eyalluvitt]

I’ve been to games at the Etihad and the atmosphere has been mint, then watched it back on tele and it’s sounded like it’s coming from two miles away.

You watch a Liverpool game at Anfield and it sounds like the microphones are in the middle of the Kop. You can hear even individual shouts and choral songs that get going are clear. Games at the Etihad on tele, the atmosphere sounds muffled and like the microphones are not switched on. I reckon you only get to hear on tele the crowd noise that comes through the commentators microphones.

I'm sure at the Arsenal game the sound was on mute unless the Tarquin choir were singing