North Stand Construction Discussion

[Coatigan]

Bar the amount of seats, it's their location, right at the front of the stand. It will impact on the support behind those seats. Fans sitting behind the proposed hospitality seats will probably want to watch the match, as the seats will be priced accordingly, as they are also at the front of the stand, but behind the hospitality seats, and because of the price of those seats. Those seats also include a proposed row of Ambulant seating. There won't be anyone standing and singing behind the hospitality section or further back in the tier.

We are going round in circles, of course.

All depends on you viewing all 640 people as exactly the same person/type, that doesn't sing, doesn't care, doesn't add to the atmosphere. Just because they have paid a little bit more (if that happens to be the case) for a seat in a good location with quicker access to a bar (but the same bogs as the rest of the stand).

I just can't see crowd dymamics so singularly, sorry. I imagine there will be loud cunts in those seats, just as there will be silent cunts, tourists, and early leavers all throughout the stand. So for that, I just can't come to agree with you, or worry about it at this point.

 

[jrb]

We are going round in circles, of course.

All depends on you viewing all 640 people as exactly the same person/type, that doesn't sing, doesn't care, doesn't add to the atmosphere. Just because they have paid a little bit more (if that happens to be the case) for a seat in a good location with quicker access to a bar (but the same bogs as the rest of the stand).

I just can't see crowd dymamics so singularly, sorry. I imagine there will be loud cunts in those seats, just as there will be silent cunts, tourists, and early leavers all throughout the stand. So for that, I juat can't come to agree with you, or worry about it at this point.

We are mate. :-) Probably with another two years of it happening.


After sitting in ESL3 yesterday I know the difference in our fan base from fans who want to stand and sing (SSL1, where I stand), and fans who want to sit down and watch the match. The hospitality section at the front of NSL2 isn’t going to stand up and sing. And the fans behind them sitting in expensive season ticket seats aren’t going to stand up and sing.

Come on mate, we all know what is going to happen and play out if the hospitality section remains at the front of NSL2. In two years time I’ll tell you I was sadly right, or I’ll be absolutely shocked and admit I was totally wrong about the hospitality section at the front of NSL2.

 

[I'm not really here]

Bar the amount of seats, it's their location, right at the front of the stand. It will impact on the support behind those seats. Fans sitting behind the proposed hospitality seats will probably want to watch the match as the seats will be priced accordingly, as they are also at the front of the stand, but behind the hospitality seats, and because of the price of those seats. Those seats also include a proposed row of Ambulant seating. There won't be anyone standing and singing behind the hospitality section or further back in the tier if the proposed seating arrangments in NSL2 go ahead.

To be fair, having them at the front might not be such a bad thing because of they're behind 1894 you just know You're going to get large scale complaints of standing, flags etc. so maybe this is factored into the thinking of placing them where they are.

(Just a thought)

 

[blueparrot]

We are mate. :-) Probably with another two years of it happening.


After sitting in ESL3 yesterday I know the difference in our fan base from fans who want to stand and sing (SSL1, where I stand), and fans who want to sit down and watch the match. The hospitality section at the front of NSL2 isn’t going to stand up and sing. And the fans behind them sitting in expensive seaskn ticket seats aren’t going to stand up and sing.

Come on mate, we all know what is going to happen and play out if the hospitality section remains at the front of NSL2. In two years time I’ll tell you I was sadly right, or I’ll be absolutely shocked and admit I was totally wrong about the hospitality section at the front of NSL2.

Maybe if we stopped thinking of it a hospitality and called it waht it is slightly more expensove seats with a perk of a seperate bar,for those that want to spend a bit more. Then we would have a better idea of any difference it might make to the type of fans in those seats.

 

[supercity88]

I dont disagree but adding 700 seats to the bottom of what should be a home end adds about a million quid to the turnover over a year. I'm not sure that outweighs the need to create a better atmosphere personally.

It's labelled as GA+ and the floorplans, whilst rough and ready seem to show a beer hall style arrangement for the hospitality area. Hopefully it's more a case of a more informal arrangement where there's access to a private bar area and great seats at the bottom of L2 which captures people willing to pay a bit more for that benefit, as opposed to corporate types who want a full dining experience. We'll see. If it's the former I don't think it will have a hugely negative impact on the atmosphere.

 

[bluesmith]

Only if you think 640 slightly more expensive seats, out of approx 12000, really dampens the atmosphere so significantly.

Its really not worth getting into as it's been done to death. But my opinion is that the demographic we need to create a home end wont move to a stand with hospitality, i might be wrong but i think 1894 group have said as much. And going off what happens in the current GA+ / hospitality light areas where large swathes of people leave early at half time and return late and clearly dont add to the atmosphere like the singing sections do, I'm not sure how anyone can think that this doesn't add a detrimental impact to an area which should be a singing home end imo.

 

[Coatigan]

We are mate. :-) Probably with another two years of it happening.


After sitting in ESL3 yesterday I know the difference in our fan base from fans who want to stand and sing (SSL1, where I stand), and fans who want to sit down and watch the match. The hospitality section at the front of NSL2 isn’t going to stand up and sing. And the fans behind them sitting in expensive seaskn ticket seats aren’t going to stand up and sing.

Come on mate, we all know what is going to happen and play out if the hospitality section remains at the front of NSL2. In two years time I’ll tell you I was sadly right, or I’ll be absolutely shocked and admit I was totally wrong about the hospitality section at the front of NSL2.

We are arguing a distant hypothetical from two set pre-concieved positions. Who ultimately turns out to be right, time will tell, and it may even vary match to match.

The things I am however fairly confident on.
- those 640 seats are not in a bubble, they are not isolated from the rest of the stand, the atmosphere, the noise etc.
- they are a small proportion, and it really would take every single one of them being a dud, to make a very small difference to a 12000 person stand.
- The layout as is, is that flexible that it allows for a number of ultimate possibilities for those seats, even when built. So who is in them or how they are priced and sold, might not be as black and white as it is currently made out.
- for your own experience of hospitality, which I neither doubt nor debate, there are multiple examples of contrasting experiences. It is a percentage and numbers game, and I myself think they are too big to broadbrush.

If none of the above gives you a bit of comfort, then it will just be a case of time will tell. We will no doubt revisit this conversation then, and as you say a few rounds inbetween too. Hopefully we won't get on each other's tits in the meantime ;)

 

[bluesmith]

It's labelled as GA+ and the floorplans, whilst rough and ready seem to show a beer hall style arrangement for the hospitality area. Hopefully it's more a case of a more informal arrangement where there's access to a private bar area and great seats at the bottom of L2 which captures people willing to pay a bit more for that benefit, as opposed to corporate types who want a full dining experience. We'll see. If it's the former I don't think it will have a hugely negative impact on the atmosphere.

That's exactly what it is, so we can compare it to 9320 etc, i dont think anyone would argue that the 9320 has a similar atmosphere to the singing sections. We should be trying to create a better atmosphere throughout the new stand than the current singing sections.

 

[Coatigan]

Maybe if we stopped thinking of it a hospitality and called it waht it is slightly more expensove seats with a perk of a seperate bar,for those that want to spend a bit more. Then we would have a better idea of any difference it might make to the type of fans in those seats.

The club, incidentally are not calling it hospitality.

They are calling it General Admission +.

What that + really is, anyone's guess.

 

[Coatigan]

Maybe if we stopped thinking of it a hospitality and called it waht it is slightly more expensove seats with a perk of a seperate bar,for those that want to spend a bit more. Then we would have a better idea of any difference it might make to the type of fans in those seats.

And incidentally, the bar isn't even 'that' separate. With 5 access points to the rest of the concourse and the bigger bars around it, and no toilets of its own. And a similar ratio of space per head (i.e no booths, private areas, dining pods etc)

People in there will inevitably mix with others in the stand whether they want to or not. Which all affects a joint atmosphere, and the desire to sing/add to the noise. Imho.