One of the Carr family in front of those 3 cars.
North Stand expansion - seating, ticketing etc
- Thread starter jrb
- Start date
People do forget. I’ve read that on BM.
Why have City introduced a 3 day window to buy a match ticket via a Flexi-Gold season tickets? There is nothing Flexible about that. If you don’t buy your ticket in the 3 day window, you lose your ticket. The club then sell that ticket as a more expensive match day ticket, or the seat remains empty because the ticket didn’t sell.That isn’t flexibility. It is the complete opposite. There is no need to make buying a ticket anymore harder or anymore complicated than it needs to be. There is no reason whatsoever why the club couldn’t make 4000 regular season tickets available instead of 4000 Flexi-Gold season tickets across the ground.
City could have made 3000 Flexi-Gold or 3000 normal season ticket available for the North stand safe standing section, and they would have sold out straight away.The club chose not to do that.
Respectfully, 'no full consultation process', that is just not true.
I have previously posted extracts from a (can't remember how many pages, but lets say 100, because it is within that region) official report by the club, on lengthy consultations and engagement with the fans over a period of some 6+ months prior to the application going in.
Including key 'wishlist' items noted by fans, many of which have been included in the design, for atmosphere considerations amongst others.
I can't remember whether I posted it on this thread or the other one for seats etc, but give me some time and I will find them for you and tag you in.
It is a very in-depth report, lists the events, dates, attendance, feedback etc. It shows that there has been ample engagement before any design decisions have been made.
Please please don't turn my post into a moaners vs clappers stand-off. My intention is in no way to either 'defend' the club nor criticise the 1894 or any other group. I am simply pointing out a factual item, that has been overlooked either deliberately or accidentally, that is contradictory to your claim above. I will repost when I find it, you can then make up your own mind.
Noted I actually agree with the lack of engagement and transparency after and since the approval was granted fwiw.
It’s only natural to do that?
People are upset and aggrieved.
And let’s be honest Tim, the clubs track record with dealing with, and engagement with the fans, is at a pretty low ebb, and has been for a very long time.(hence the demonstrations last season, etc)
Were those fans being moved by the club consulted by the club before the announcement was made by the club?
johnnytapia
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Certainly is. Good spot Mr C
In a nutshell, Coatigan.
It’s good to talk. It’s good's to engage. It’s good to get honest and genuine feedback. It’s good to listen. It’s good to work with that.
I’m sure City Matters Reps are putting loads of ideas forward on behalf of the fans for the North stand. It’s just that we don’t know what those ideas are. We haven’t been told or consulted yet.
chesterbells
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I thought it had already been constructed?
Bert Swift
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What will be better for the atmosphere? One large North Stand or a small, split, low level South Stand?
Can we put aside who said what, to who and when or who hasn`t said what and could do. Leave the history behind and deal with the here and now.
If the primary objective is atmosphere generation, then locating to the extended North Stand is the only logical conclusion.
New North Stand - Large level 2
* a complete, large end for the first time.
* 3000 (minimum) rail seats for singers.
* more rail seats can be added down both sides.
* General Admission (GA) seating who will naturally join in as the rear and the side standing will envelop the GA.
* the location higher up, closer to the roof, with wrap round sides, will provide allow the sound to boom out.
*the inclusion of GA+ seating has no impact on any of the above.
*the small numbers to be displaced from existing seats have the good option to move, with family and friends, to better seats for the same price. They will not be disadvantaged and could be better placed.
South Stand (SS) - Small Level 1
* too small
* too low down
* one of the worst locations to generate a noise
* concrete overhang at the rear underneath SS2 deadens sound.
* split in part on either side of away fans
* displays are effective for a short time pre-match. They contribute nothing to atmosphere once the match has started.
* in recent years, overall, the atmosphere from SS1 has been usually fair to middling, occasionally good, but can definitely be better.
* 2 levels of the SS are often entirely allocated to away fans in cup games. They usually dominate the noise in cup games.
The new North Stand provides the opportunity for a complete, large end for the first time. It offers the best chance of an improved atmosphere.
Can we put aside who said what, to who and when or who hasn`t said what and could do. Leave the history behind and deal with the here and now.
If the primary objective is atmosphere generation, then locating to the extended North Stand is the only logical conclusion.
New North Stand - Large level 2
* a complete, large end for the first time.
* 3000 (minimum) rail seats for singers.
* more rail seats can be added down both sides.
* General Admission (GA) seating who will naturally join in as the rear and the side standing will envelop the GA.
* the location higher up, closer to the roof, with wrap round sides, will provide allow the sound to boom out.
*the inclusion of GA+ seating has no impact on any of the above.
*the small numbers to be displaced from existing seats have the good option to move, with family and friends, to better seats for the same price. They will not be disadvantaged and could be better placed.
South Stand (SS) - Small Level 1
* too small
* too low down
* one of the worst locations to generate a noise
* concrete overhang at the rear underneath SS2 deadens sound.
* split in part on either side of away fans
* displays are effective for a short time pre-match. They contribute nothing to atmosphere once the match has started.
* in recent years, overall, the atmosphere from SS1 has been usually fair to middling, occasionally good, but can definitely be better.
* 2 levels of the SS are often entirely allocated to away fans in cup games. They usually dominate the noise in cup games.
The new North Stand provides the opportunity for a complete, large end for the first time. It offers the best chance of an improved atmosphere.
Further to my earlier response to you, I have found the exctrats from the report I mention.
Ironically, it was actually in response to you the last time, and we have had this conversation before!
The whole page is not irrelevant but the key bit is about two thirds down. The feedback collates is an interesting refresh anyway, given where the stand is.
North Stand expansion - seating, ticketing etc
It's positive to read that 1894 still have the door open, but I would still prefer things to be a bit more proactive. There is plenty of evidence out there from other clubs as to what does or doesn't work when it comes to atmosphere. What I found positive in the Club's Statement was: During...
forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk
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blueparrot
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Exactly this make the very best of the reality today and stop getting bogged down in past arguments, and ending up with a worse outcome.
BerkshireBlue
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And like Ive said before. Who cares, that's for the club to analyse and decide upon. A cautious approach is better
remember arthur mann
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LEXSTARproject
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Dante @wearethesouthstand
The club promised the fans a blue wall, which a lot of fans still want it.
The North Stand has been a sham since it started getting people to sign NDA's which is crazy; it's a football stand. The manager wants an atmosphere in the stadium, but why are the people behind the stadium going the opposite way, chasing money instead?
The team needs the twelve-man crowd to help them win games, and we're not going to get that with a Club Wembley-style area, in which was supposed to be a blue wall. I would like to see the Dortmund fans' reaction if they copied what our club is trying to do into the Yellow Wall.
The club can earn as much commercial money as it wants, but stop destroying the lifeblood of the club, the fans.
Dante the 1894 helped get the club to take action on ticket prices. We need the same kind of action, "Save our North Stand" campaign.
The North Stand needs to be our home end, a blue wall, as other people have mentioned on here, having all the most vocal fans in the lower section, a mixture of all the fans from Kippax Corner and the South Stand
Everton can do it, why can't we !!!
Keep up the good work
What is often easily overlooked, is the sheer cost and effort it took the club, to get the NS arrangement over the other. The planning, design, structural acrobatics, props, transfers, site logistics and the extra money and time involved. Not to mention getting new approvals secured when they already had the other arrangement approved and in place.
People may disagree with the demographic mix of the stand. Or may think the club will fuck it up with the allocation and pricing and positioning of some 7% of a higher end offering. Maybe they might.
But I really don't think anyone can legitimately claim the club haven't tried here, or that atmosphere is an afterthought.
Bert Swift
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Response to some of the points made by wearethesouthstand above.
Firstly, lets focus on what can be done to improve the atmosphere.
2."The club can control everything though and do everything right if they wanted. But they choose not to."
The club has a range of considerations to take into account including the short, medium, and long-term financial health of the football business. No club gets everything right. It is a matter of opinion about what is right and not. Our owners have got much more right than most.
3. "No full consultation process with north standers".
Such a consultation process is not necessary.
Level 1 is not affected.
Only a relatively small number are affected by seat re-locations in Level 2. These fans will be offered better priced alternatives quite close by with family and friends. There is nothing to indicate that they will be materially disadvantaged. In fact, it could work out better for them.
4. "They could easily have taken a more personal approach to fans there and worked around fans wishes to develop a stand that pleases everyone."
From an atmosphere perspective, 3000 rail seats at the back, plus more rails seats down both sides providing that fans get behind this, plus a central core of General Admission seats, is more fans than the existing South Stand level 1 (or level 0).
The inclusion of GA+ seating does not affect the atmosphere that the above can generate.
5."Groups like 1894 felt last summer perhaps the club aren’t taking atmosphere seriously and kept their distance from whatever plan club are concocting".
How will the current atmosphere in the South Stand be better than what is possible in the North Stand?
6. Communications
Communications seem to be the blight of many organisations - how, when, who to, what to say, what not say. Most clubs could do better. Agreed that this applies to City too.
On a separate matter that has been raised by others -
7.Pricing
Publishing business plans with seat pricing well in advance is not realistic. That is for the club and its Board.
In my opinion the club will have greater scope over pricing given that they will have increased capacity. It is more likely that that the pricing of the rear rail seats in the new North Stand will be similar to the lower priced seats in SS3.
Firstly, lets focus on what can be done to improve the atmosphere.
2."The club can control everything though and do everything right if they wanted. But they choose not to."
The club has a range of considerations to take into account including the short, medium, and long-term financial health of the football business. No club gets everything right. It is a matter of opinion about what is right and not. Our owners have got much more right than most.
3. "No full consultation process with north standers".
Such a consultation process is not necessary.
Level 1 is not affected.
Only a relatively small number are affected by seat re-locations in Level 2. These fans will be offered better priced alternatives quite close by with family and friends. There is nothing to indicate that they will be materially disadvantaged. In fact, it could work out better for them.
4. "They could easily have taken a more personal approach to fans there and worked around fans wishes to develop a stand that pleases everyone."
From an atmosphere perspective, 3000 rail seats at the back, plus more rails seats down both sides providing that fans get behind this, plus a central core of General Admission seats, is more fans than the existing South Stand level 1 (or level 0).
The inclusion of GA+ seating does not affect the atmosphere that the above can generate.
5."Groups like 1894 felt last summer perhaps the club aren’t taking atmosphere seriously and kept their distance from whatever plan club are concocting".
How will the current atmosphere in the South Stand be better than what is possible in the North Stand?
6. Communications
Communications seem to be the blight of many organisations - how, when, who to, what to say, what not say. Most clubs could do better. Agreed that this applies to City too.
On a separate matter that has been raised by others -
7.Pricing
Publishing business plans with seat pricing well in advance is not realistic. That is for the club and its Board.
In my opinion the club will have greater scope over pricing given that they will have increased capacity. It is more likely that that the pricing of the rear rail seats in the new North Stand will be similar to the lower priced seats in SS3.
wearethesouthstand
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Yes I know you come in peace mate !Further to my earlier response to you, I have found the exctrats from the report I mention.
Ironically, it was actually in response to you the last time, and we have had this conversation before!
The whole page is not irrelevant but the key bit is about two thirds down. The feedback collates is an interesting refresh anyway, given where the stand is.
North Stand expansion - seating, ticketing etc
It's positive to read that 1894 still have the door open, but I would still prefer things to be a bit more proactive. There is plenty of evidence out there from other clubs as to what does or doesn't work when it comes to atmosphere. What I found positive in the Club's Statement was: During...
You say yourself on the post whatever they have done is a tick box exercise, it’s only been token gestures. A full consultation is easy to they have everybody’s email addresses tens of thousands of people to survey.
Even as of this morning one bloke in 037 who is affected still hasn’t had an email at all and has checked junk items and everything.
It’s been a choice of theirs to do it this way. People think oh it’s only 500 people they have been around each other together since 2003 and it’s breaking up friendships.