North Stand Expansion

[Manchester_lalala]

(cc: @Blue Feather)

For what it's worth, I was really excited about the South Stand extension when it happened. And any potential of the North Stand getting bigger years later was pretty enticing as well. I've sat in the North Stand since 2003 and I thought the expansion looked great when it was first built. I even sat up there for Kompany's testimonial and had a cracking night. Loads of legroom, a great view, good facilities, etc.

But I think, with hindsight, the atmosphere has grown considerably worse in the years since its completion. For a number of reasons. First of all, it does mean we have about 1,000 empty seats dotted about the place, but empty seats have never really concerned me. We've got about 45k core supports and the rest come and go as they please, that's who City are. But the South Stand expansion allowed to club to exploit something...

If they can keep the media (and the happier of clappers amongst our support) happy with "the cheapest season ticket in the Premier League" then they can continue to price out fans elsewhere in the ground. I remember in 2016 when a bunch of lads I'd known for years suddenly had to stop going to City - the club had put their season tickets up by 50% because they'd built "Joe's Bar" in their area of the ground.

So it was "Pay up £800" or "Fuck off".

The £299 "value season ticket" has always stayed the same price but in the same timeframe my season ticket has gone up by about £100. And I'm on the second tier of the North Stand. I don't even want to think about the prices people have to pay in the East Stand or Colin Bell. It all contributes to a large section of our working class support being slowly priced out over the years. They're generally the ones who make the most noise.

As more and more of our louder, working class fans have opted for cheaper tickets in other areas of the ground (or have just given up because they can't afford it anymore) the places where the atmosphere used to be the best (East/South Stand corner, South Stand tier 1) have been slowly picked apart. Maybe the club would have done this anyway without the expansion but I think the expansion only sped the process up.

Although I don't think our atmosphere has been the same since the 12/13 season. The 10/11 + 11/12 seasons were fantastic. A former member of this forum, Skashion (some will remember him), dubbed them "The Poznan Years". Two years of constantly rising as a club, the fans going to games with no expectations and coming away having seen yet another win. An FA Cup we never expected to win, then the greatest title win in history.

But I think 12/13 was a harsh reality check of what it was really like to be a top side. We actually had expectations going into that season and they weren't met. The fanbase has felt different to me since then, and I don't think it's a coincidence that that was the last year they had the £95 season ticket for kids under 16. Rising expectations and rising prices combined, then the South Stand was expanded...

The atmosphere will obviously be crackling on Sunday if things go well, but I think the club have to have a word with themselves about why we've become known amongst other fans for never selling out home games, having empty seats, and constantly having flat atmospheres. We have higher average attendances than Chelsea, Tottenham, and United, yet we're known as the plastics. Sometimes we have to look at ourselves.

We never had these issues when the average season ticket price was £600 (which is cheaper than some of the "cheaper" tickets in the ground these days) and the stadium had 48,000 seats. I think we sold out every single home game of the 11/12 season. The "Emptihad" stuff only really started during the Pellegrini years and got significantly worse after the South Stand was completed.

I'm old enough to remember when the only part of the ground that got stick on here for "people leaving too early" or "never being full on school nights" was the North Stand immediately behind the goal. Now it's everywhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it has something to do with the fact that in 2015 our highest priced season ticket was £860, whereas next season it will be £980. That's a rise of 14% in seven years.

And that's not including the "Premium Seats" where you get charged £1450 to sit on a padded cushion (?) and get to visit the exclusive and allegedly brilliant 93:20 Bar, which I was treated to for a home game against West Ham in 2016 and it just seemed like a slightly glorified version of the basic concourse that everybody else uses and doesn't pay over £1000 for the privilege of using.

So yeah, the South Stand expansion. It's sucked atmosphere away from the loudest areas of the ground, it's taken our most vocal supporters away from the singing areas (or been used as a method to price them out), and it makes the stadium look a bit like a toilet seat when you look at it from the train approaching Piccadilly. A nice idea that, in hindsight, was probably a mistake. A North Stand expansion would only make things worse, in my opinion.

A lot of good points here. The atmosphere in some of our games is terrible, I’d love it we could get that buzz back into our stadium. We probably get around 3/4 games a season what you would consider a “good” atmosphere. I don’t have a clue what the club can do to fix it, but that’s the other issue, are they even bothered?

Who ever thinks City are going to extend the north stand and reduce the ticket prices across the ground is living in a dream world. Our club that we once had is gone, but it’s balances itself out as we get to see the best players in the world play every week. The cost to expand the North Stand will be much more than the South Stand. Cost of materials are higher, City store and square will probably be moved and I’m pretty sure there was talks of upgrades to the electrical network around the etihad. I know money is no object for our owner, but it’s a big outlay of money and lowering the ticket prices isn’t going to justify it. On the other hand, if the prices stay the same, or rise again which is likely, we’d see more empty seats than ever.

I think the club will hang fire for another few years and assess all the data they’ve got from the years that have gone by since 2015 and will probably make a decision then. Extending the stadium for Euro 2028 would be a good shout, I’d also like to see a makeover of the ground as it looks older than it actually is from the outside.

 

[Keeper!]

So what’s the priority? Cheaper tickets or a huge completely new stand? Because it’s unlikely to be both.

Has to be a combination, if you build a huge new stand, it has to be filled to justify it, and your not going to fill said huge stand with high price seats/corporate.

There are plenty of ways it could be done, I would imagine part of the new stand would include a new shops, restaurants, museum etc, all which could bring in revenue 365 days a year.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I moved upto the third tier of the south stand in the cheap seats and it’s a good crowd up there, lots of the older end, although getting up there is like a great advert for Stana chairlifts. The only way the North stand should it be done is a Dortmund type wall but with bloody cheap season tickets. I did say £100 ones and got shouted down then how about £300 with under 16 been £100. What could it hold 5-10k I’ve no idea but you’d get all the youngsters in there making a lot of noise. We are a victim of our own success, there will be loads of empty seats next season as bills bite, if I sell my ticket to the club for £18 they resell for around £50-60 that’s a lot of gas and electricity. It wouldn’t surprise if renewals start to drop as well.

They should be £350 season tickets and £35 matchday tickets capped for ten years.

I’m telling you straight up we’d pack a 16,500 stand no problem with those prices and the offer (because a lot of people might not take up an initial cheap offer knowing what City are like as they’d wonder “how much will they be in five years though?”!).

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I’m Worried the recent crowd troubles / invasions might affect the safe standing trial.

What crowd troubles? I’ve see more fighting at the rugby league than I have at City games over the last ten years.

 

[Blue Maverick]

City could easily install the barrier types they have at Wembley to stop pitch invasions, there’s enough room pitch side.

 

[jrb]

City could easily install the barrier types they have at Wembley to stop pitch invasions, there’s enough room pitch side.

Why would you want City to do that? Do we really want to see metal traps placed around the perimeter of level 1?

There's only ever one pitch invasion when City win the PL title at home on the last day of the season.

All the pitch invasions have been good natured with the fans celebrating with the players. The fans are just enjoying themselves. There's never been an incident with opposing fans or opposing players since pitch invasions started at the Etihad.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

(cc: @Blue Feather)

For what it's worth, I was really excited about the South Stand extension when it happened. And any potential of the North Stand getting bigger years later was pretty enticing as well. I've sat in the North Stand since 2003 and I thought the expansion looked great when it was first built. I even sat up there for Kompany's testimonial and had a cracking night. Loads of legroom, a great view, good facilities, etc.

But I think, with hindsight, the atmosphere has grown considerably worse in the years since its completion. For a number of reasons. First of all, it does mean we have about 1,000 empty seats dotted about the place, but empty seats have never really concerned me. We've got about 45k core supports and the rest come and go as they please, that's who City are. But the South Stand expansion allowed to club to exploit something...

If they can keep the media (and the happier of clappers amongst our support) happy with "the cheapest season ticket in the Premier League" then they can continue to price out fans elsewhere in the ground. I remember in 2016 when a bunch of lads I'd known for years suddenly had to stop going to City - the club had put their season tickets up by 50% because they'd built "Joe's Bar" in their area of the ground.

So it was "Pay up £800" or "Fuck off".

The £299 "value season ticket" has always stayed the same price but in the same timeframe my season ticket has gone up by about £100. And I'm on the second tier of the North Stand. I don't even want to think about the prices people have to pay in the East Stand or Colin Bell. It all contributes to a large section of our working class support being slowly priced out over the years. They're generally the ones who make the most noise.

As more and more of our louder, working class fans have opted for cheaper tickets in other areas of the ground (or have just given up because they can't afford it anymore) the places where the atmosphere used to be the best (East/South Stand corner, South Stand tier 1) have been slowly picked apart. Maybe the club would have done this anyway without the expansion but I think the expansion only sped the process up.

Although I don't think our atmosphere has been the same since the 12/13 season. The 10/11 + 11/12 seasons were fantastic. A former member of this forum, Skashion (some will remember him), dubbed them "The Poznan Years". Two years of constantly rising as a club, the fans going to games with no expectations and coming away having seen yet another win. An FA Cup we never expected to win, then the greatest title win in history.

But I think 12/13 was a harsh reality check of what it was really like to be a top side. We actually had expectations going into that season and they weren't met. The fanbase has felt different to me since then, and I don't think it's a coincidence that that was the last year they had the £95 season ticket for kids under 16. Rising expectations and rising prices combined, then the South Stand was expanded...

The atmosphere will obviously be crackling on Sunday if things go well, but I think the club have to have a word with themselves about why we've become known amongst other fans for never selling out home games, having empty seats, and constantly having flat atmospheres. We have higher average attendances than Chelsea, Tottenham, and United, yet we're known as the plastics. Sometimes we have to look at ourselves.

We never had these issues when the average season ticket price was £600 (which is cheaper than some of the "cheaper" tickets in the ground these days) and the stadium had 48,000 seats. I think we sold out every single home game of the 11/12 season. The "Emptihad" stuff only really started during the Pellegrini years and got significantly worse after the South Stand was completed.

I'm old enough to remember when the only part of the ground that got stick on here for "people leaving too early" or "never being full on school nights" was the North Stand immediately behind the goal. Now it's everywhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it has something to do with the fact that in 2015 our highest priced season ticket was £860, whereas next season it will be £980. That's a rise of 14% in seven years.

And that's not including the "Premium Seats" where you get charged £1450 to sit on a padded cushion (?) and get to visit the exclusive and allegedly brilliant 93:20 Bar, which I was treated to for a home game against West Ham in 2016 and it just seemed like a slightly glorified version of the basic concourse that everybody else uses and doesn't pay over £1000 for the privilege of using.

So yeah, the South Stand expansion. It's sucked atmosphere away from the loudest areas of the ground, it's taken our most vocal supporters away from the singing areas (or been used as a method to price them out), and it makes the stadium look a bit like a toilet seat when you look at it from the train approaching Piccadilly. A nice idea that, in hindsight, was probably a mistake. A North Stand expansion would only make things worse, in my opinion.

Brilliant post and spot on about timeframes on how things changed for the worse.

One thing I would add is that you mentioned about how the atmosphere changed under the Pellegrini years which is so true. I also think he fueled the early leavers problem as well. He was constantly withdrawing our best players for the final 20 mins of games when the game was already won. This led to so many games just petering out and gave an excuse to early leavers. Thos is where it really started to be more evident - which has now multiplied to the extent it has now.

Agree that a new North stand is not required. Let’s sort out what we have and get it full and try to improve the atmosphere and keep a capacity of what we have at present.

 

[Keeper!]

Brilliant post and spot on about timeframes on how things changed for the worse.

One thing I would add is that you mentioned about how the atmosphere changed under the Pellegrini years which is so true. I also think he fueled the early leavers problem as well. He was constantly withdrawing our best players for the final 20 mins of games when the game was already won. This led to so many games just petering out and gave an excuse to early leavers. Thos is where it really started to be more evident - which has now multiplied to the extent it has now.

Agree that a new North stand is not required. Let’s sort out what we have and get it full and try to improve the atmosphere and keep a capacity of what we have at present.

"Agree that a new North stand is not required."

So wrong, the owners of this club want us to be the very best and that includes having the best stadium , facilities and large fan base.

The stadium has to and will be extended and hugely improved, it's just a question of timing, build it and they will come as we proved when we moved into this stadium.

 

[HelloCity]

What crowd troubles? I’ve see more fighting at the rugby league than I have at City games over the last ten years.

Large increase in the number of arrests for anti social behaviour.

Large increase in arrests for racism.

Large increase in arrests for drug use.

Fans assaulting players on the pitch.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Why would you want City to do that? Do we really want to see metal traps placed around the perimeter of level 1?

There's only ever one pitch invasion when City win the PL title at home on the last day of the season.

All the pitch invasions have been good natured with the fans celebrating with the players. The fans are just enjoying themselves. There's never been an incident with opposing fans or opposing players since pitch invasions started at the Etihad.

You do know City get fined for every invasion! And in the long run what’s to stop something more sinister happening. You only have to look at the kids running onto the pitch and see that hassle it causes.