Official "Changes To Seasoncards" Thread

[Shaelumstash]

it would cause absolute uproar if the loyalty points system was ever scrapped.

the system was introduced to reward loyalty, if at the first hint of success it goes out of the window then it will be little short of a disgrace, considering city are making money on the back of loyalty points.

it's time city were transparent as to what their long term plans are with regard to loyalty points, let everyone know from the off what the pecking order is going to be for buying tickets for the big games/cup finals.

ie how many are they going to cream off for corporate for old trafford, how many superbia tickets are they going to sell, and if those at the top end of loyalty points dont take them up, will they be offered to those below them.

my loyalty points have cost literally 1000's of pounds to accumulate, and there is no way on gods earth i have 2.5k to lay out in one go, and yet a richer fan than me can leapfrog my 8750 points, by gaining 2000 points by having cash on the hip, or in loyalty points terms, 100 away games at 20 points a go.

the club are trying to create a mythical scramble for tickets that presently doesnt exist, when i for one would have far more respect if they just came out and said, look to meet fifa fair play guidelines there has to be an increase in ticket prices, no bullshit just the truth.

money is now talking and yet i have spent mine trawling to places like portsmouth on a saturday night, and getting 10 loyalty points, while mr moneybags will overtake us all eventually.

i think city have let us down on this one.

Only people with shit loads of points already (probably 8000 plus) qualify for the Superbia. They haven't got these points simply by being "money bags" they've got them exactly the same way that you have - by travelling all over the country watching away games.

If you already have over 8000 points you will probably qualify for tickets for every game for the next 5 years at least even if you don't go to single more away game.

If you think about it, City need to do something to attract younger, hungry, loyal fans who cannot currently qualify for tickets. There is probably hundreds of 20 year old City fans who go to every single away game, but can't get Derby tickets. There will definitely be some guys who used to go to all the aways 5 or 6 years ago, have loads of loyalty points but only now bother with going to the derby away.

That can't go on forever, we need to start bringing a new generation of loyal fans through. Of course loyalty over a long period should be rewarded, but surely loyalty and dedication right now need to be rewarded as well? how could a 19 year old kid have possibly got 8000 points? It's impossible, they are too young

you mean games like birmingham away when there were 2000 empty seats, where were these people then.

if people like me dont take the superbia offer, they will sell it to someone will less loyalty points than me, whom will overtake my loyalty points despite not going to anywhere near the amount of games, it will be money talking, not loyalty.

for some people 2.5k is nothing, for me, in one hit, with a mortgage and a family it's impossible, i scrimp and save to follow city everywhere, yet someone with cash will earn 200 away games at 10 points for doing nothing.

if you call that fair then you need to work it all out again.

Ok, so how do you suggest these people have accumilated 8000 points? It clearly wasn't by going to Birmingham, so how did they get them? Chequebook?

 

[fathellensbellend]

Can those who are complaing about the new schemes suggest where the club can get the extra revenue from to maintain qualification for the Champions League? The Club are squeezing what they can out of sponsorship etc and EUFA have some very strict rules about money coming into a club and their 'fair play' rules.

just be transparent, i would have far more respect of they said, look to compete in the champions league and meet fifa fair play we need to charge whatever, none of this your season card just got better, your loyalty counts double etc, its all bullshit.

my season cards didnt get better, they got dearer to the tune of 240 quid.

 

[Shaelumstash]

it would cause absolute uproar if the loyalty points system was ever scrapped.

It's virtually been scraped (as we know it) by these changes anyway.

Take the example a few pages back of the bloke offered 'Superbia' but turning it down in order to get 'Gold'.

His decision on this was influenced by the fact that loyalty points will still count for away tickets and he has loads, having been going for years.

He is still going to continue to go but each year people who don't go as often as him yet are willing to stump up an extra £50 are going to be gaining ground on his points and eventually passing him.

So, although he is loyal and has built up these loyalty points and still goes to every home and some aways, his points become more and more worthless each year because he isn't willing to pay £50 extra a year for fresh air (well, £50 extra for a load more points each year).

Plus he is being constantly overtaken by those who have less than him but still qualify for 'Superbia' and have the cash at hand. Not too bad at the moment as there isn't that many anyway, but will become a real problem when they inevitably start allowing any Johnny-Come-Lately to pay their £2,500 and jump above the loyalty point system.

That's an example at the top of the scheme but the same thing will happen to people with a lot of points who choose 'Gold' as their loyalty, which has taken years to build up, is quickly eroded by those less loyal but paying up for 'Platinum.' The cup scheme is another extension of it which again renders previous loyalty more and more worthless.

This is my gripe with Garry Cook. He is a bullshitter.

Come out and say we are putting a big chunk on ticket prices and expect you to swallow it. Don't give it all this "Pay more to become a better fan" shite cos we are paying more purely for the privilege of not being overtaken by people who are less loyal.

I cannot stand his patter about the loyal fans being so important to him when every decision he ever makes is purely about squeezing them for more and more cash and if they can't pay it replacing them with someone who can.

Cut the bullshit, trying to be everyone's mate and tell it to us straight and I'd have a lot more respect for him, even if I didn't like it.

What about young City fans who were about 6 years old when people with 8000 points starting accumilating their points? If the young guy is now 20 and has been going to every game home and away for the last few years, should he just never be able to catch the 50 year old guy who only bothers with the derby and Cup Final nowadays??!

Of course loyalty over the years should be rewarded, but we should also be rewarding the young fans, who are going to every game NOW. It's unfair to penalise them for the big games simply because they were born too recently to have gained enough points to qualify for tickets

 

[BlueLlama]

I can understand how you feel but for me it looks like the club are trying to do 2 things.
1) Create some extra cash. If 30,000 season ticket holders pay another £50 that just gives City £1.5M but tied to Loyalty points it adds some extra spice which leads to point 2.
2) Create concern with fans that unless they attend games like Notts Co at home that they will fall behind on Loyalty points.
So if they simply banged up the cost of a season card by £50 it would still not encourage fans to fill the stadium for all games.
You might not like what they are doing and it might be bullshit the way it is being sold but if it means a full stadium for more games its OK with me.

 

[fathellensbellend]

Only people with shit loads of points already (probably 8000 plus) qualify for the Superbia. They haven't got these points simply by being "money bags" they've got them exactly the same way that you have - by travelling all over the country watching away games.

If you already have over 8000 points you will probably qualify for tickets for every game for the next 5 years at least even if you don't go to single more away game.

If you think about it, City need to do something to attract younger, hungry, loyal fans who cannot currently qualify for tickets. There is probably hundreds of 20 year old City fans who go to every single away game, but can't get Derby tickets. There will definitely be some guys who used to go to all the aways 5 or 6 years ago, have loads of loyalty points but only now bother with going to the derby away.

That can't go on forever, we need to start bringing a new generation of loyal fans through. Of course loyalty over a long period should be rewarded, but surely loyalty and dedication right now need to be rewarded as well? how could a 19 year old kid have possibly got 8000 points? It's impossible, they are too young

you mean games like birmingham away when there were 2000 empty seats, where were these people then.

if people like me dont take the superbia offer, they will sell it to someone will less loyalty points than me, whom will overtake my loyalty points despite not going to anywhere near the amount of games, it will be money talking, not loyalty.

for some people 2.5k is nothing, for me, in one hit, with a mortgage and a family it's impossible, i scrimp and save to follow city everywhere, yet someone with cash will earn 200 away games at 10 points for doing nothing.

if you call that fair then you need to work it all out again.

Ok, so how do you suggest these people have accumilated 8000 points? It clearly wasn't by going to Birmingham, so how did they get them? Chequebook?

i think you are getting confused, you ask how people are meant to catch up, and i suggest by going to some of the less glamour games, those with 8000 points are the ones who go.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

it would cause absolute uproar if the loyalty points system was ever scrapped.

It's virtually been scraped (as we know it) by these changes anyway.

Take the example a few pages back of the bloke offered 'Superbia' but turning it down in order to get 'Gold'.

His decision on this was influenced by the fact that loyalty points will still count for away tickets and he has loads, having been going for years.

He is still going to continue to go but each year people who don't go as often as him yet are willing to stump up an extra £50 are going to be gaining ground on his points and eventually passing him.

So, although he is loyal and has built up these loyalty points and still goes to every home and some aways, his points become more and more worthless each year because he isn't willing to pay £50 extra a year for fresh air (well, £50 extra for a load more points each year).

Plus he is being constantly overtaken by those who have less than him but still qualify for 'Superbia' and have the cash at hand. Not too bad at the moment as there isn't that many anyway, but will become a real problem when they inevitably start allowing any Johnny-Come-Lately to pay their £2,500 and jump above the loyalty point system.

That's an example at the top of the scheme but the same thing will happen to people with a lot of points who choose 'Gold' as their loyalty, which has taken years to build up, is quickly eroded by those less loyal but paying up for 'Platinum.' The cup scheme is another extension of it which again renders previous loyalty more and more worthless.

This is my gripe with Garry Cook. He is a bullshitter.

Come out and say we are putting a big chunk on ticket prices and expect you to swallow it. Don't give it all this "Pay more to become a better fan" shite cos we are paying more purely for the privilege of not being overtaken by people who are less loyal.

I cannot stand his patter about the loyal fans being so important to him when every decision he ever makes is purely about squeezing them for more and more cash and if they can't pay it replacing them with someone who can.

Cut the bullshit, trying to be everyone's mate and tell it to us straight and I'd have a lot more respect for him, even if I didn't like it.

What about young City fans who were about 6 years old when people with 8000 points starting accumilating their points? If the young guy is now 20 and has been going to every game home and away for the last few years, should he just never be able to catch the 50 year old guy who only bothers with the derby and Cup Final nowadays??!

Of course loyalty over the years should be rewarded, but we should also be rewarding the young fans, who are going to every game NOW. It's unfair to penalise them for the big games simply because they were born too recently to have gained enough points to qualify for tickets

People die. People stop going as often. I don't see a huge problem with people who want to go to most aways getting tickets. Old or young. (Apart from the likes of Old Trafford this year with the alleged many mysterious faces that appeared, with people claiming that huge amounts were given to corporate and day trippers - but that is most definitely another issue)

 

[Shaelumstash]

It's virtually been scraped (as we know it) by these changes anyway.

Take the example a few pages back of the bloke offered 'Superbia' but turning it down in order to get 'Gold'.

His decision on this was influenced by the fact that loyalty points will still count for away tickets and he has loads, having been going for years.

He is still going to continue to go but each year people who don't go as often as him yet are willing to stump up an extra £50 are going to be gaining ground on his points and eventually passing him.

So, although he is loyal and has built up these loyalty points and still goes to every home and some aways, his points become more and more worthless each year because he isn't willing to pay £50 extra a year for fresh air (well, £50 extra for a load more points each year).

Plus he is being constantly overtaken by those who have less than him but still qualify for 'Superbia' and have the cash at hand. Not too bad at the moment as there isn't that many anyway, but will become a real problem when they inevitably start allowing any Johnny-Come-Lately to pay their £2,500 and jump above the loyalty point system.

That's an example at the top of the scheme but the same thing will happen to people with a lot of points who choose 'Gold' as their loyalty, which has taken years to build up, is quickly eroded by those less loyal but paying up for 'Platinum.' The cup scheme is another extension of it which again renders previous loyalty more and more worthless.

This is my gripe with Garry Cook. He is a bullshitter.

Come out and say we are putting a big chunk on ticket prices and expect you to swallow it. Don't give it all this "Pay more to become a better fan" shite cos we are paying more purely for the privilege of not being overtaken by people who are less loyal.

I cannot stand his patter about the loyal fans being so important to him when every decision he ever makes is purely about squeezing them for more and more cash and if they can't pay it replacing them with someone who can.

Cut the bullshit, trying to be everyone's mate and tell it to us straight and I'd have a lot more respect for him, even if I didn't like it.

What about young City fans who were about 6 years old when people with 8000 points starting accumilating their points? If the young guy is now 20 and has been going to every game home and away for the last few years, should he just never be able to catch the 50 year old guy who only bothers with the derby and Cup Final nowadays??!

Of course loyalty over the years should be rewarded, but we should also be rewarding the young fans, who are going to every game NOW. It's unfair to penalise them for the big games simply because they were born too recently to have gained enough points to qualify for tickets

People die. People stop going as often. I don't see a huge problem with people who want to go to most aways getting tickets. Old or young. (Apart from the likes of Old Trafford this year with the alleged many mysterious faces that appeared, with people claiming that huge amounts were given to corporate and day trippers - but that is most definitely another issue)

Yeh I appreciate what you are saying, and I'm not saying I know the solution. But, although I think our system is the fairest I have heard of in the league, it is not an ideal solution either. I know kids who have been to 15 away games this season and last who couldn't get a cup final ticket, and people in their 50s who've not been to an away game for 5 years who qualified. It is open to debate whether that is fair enough, but for me I think ongoing loyalty right now should be rewarded more that loyalty 5 or 10 years ago with indifference over the last few years.

 

[cleavers]

If you think about it, City need to do something to attract younger, hungry, loyal fans who cannot currently qualify for tickets. There is probably hundreds of 20 year old City fans who go to every single away game, but can't get Derby tickets. There will definitely be some guys who used to go to all the aways 5 or 6 years ago, have loads of loyalty points but only now bother with going to the derby away.

That can't go on forever, we need to start bringing a new generation of loyal fans through. Of course loyalty over a long period should be rewarded, but surely loyalty and dedication right now need to be rewarded as well? how could a 19 year old kid have possibly got 8000 points? It's impossible, they are too young

If you really think that this is the motivation behind these changes then you are extremely naive. It has absolutely nothing to do with "younger hungry fans", and everything to do with wealthy fans (possibly mutes as far as atmosphere goes).

The club needs to maximise revenue streams (its not a phrase I particularly like either), and they do that by taking as much money from the fanbase as they can. The highest earners on the fanbase will pay the club most money, some young single guy might follow the club up and down the country, but they spend half of their money on tickets for other clubs (away games provide the club with nothing revenue wise), whereas corporate contribute shitloads AT the club.

Like it or not (most won't), success will bring far more corporate "support" (and we're just on the first rung of that ladder), so you maximise corporate revenue, and the club will do this by making things like away tickets a privilege for those that pay the club most money.



As for 20 year olds not having enough points, well that's untrue, I have one who has a pretty large total, despite not doing many this year because he's at uni, why ? Because he's done the games in the past, simple as that, like fbh above, he's been at the likes of portsmouth away on TV on a Monday night.

The only games this season that have caused a fuss about not having enough points, are united, arsenal, chelsea, and the 2 games at wembley, this is because they are the most popular (and in 2 of the league game cases because we got a pathetically low allocation), the rest have gone to general sale, so ANYONE who wanted one, could have got one, and consequently got the points.

 

[beermusic]

as i've posted before, the entire ticket revenue from seasoncards and non-members tickets last season didn't even cover dzeko's transfer fee. clubs don't make money from tickets, they make money from having you in the ground, buying at the shop etc. the point being, they will raise about 2m from platinum, pissing off some in the process, yet there are far easier ways to raise that small amount.

And before anyone accuses me of moaning, I'm not moaning, just weighing up whether to spend £50 more than I have to.

 

[Shaelumstash]

If you think about it, City need to do something to attract younger, hungry, loyal fans who cannot currently qualify for tickets. There is probably hundreds of 20 year old City fans who go to every single away game, but can't get Derby tickets. There will definitely be some guys who used to go to all the aways 5 or 6 years ago, have loads of loyalty points but only now bother with going to the derby away.

That can't go on forever, we need to start bringing a new generation of loyal fans through. Of course loyalty over a long period should be rewarded, but surely loyalty and dedication right now need to be rewarded as well? how could a 19 year old kid have possibly got 8000 points? It's impossible, they are too young

If you really think that this is the motivation behind these changes then you are extremely naive. It has absolutely nothing to do with "younger hungry fans", and everything to do with wealthy fans (possibly mutes as far as atmosphere goes).

The club needs to maximise revenue streams (its not a phrase I particularly like either), and they do that by taking as much money from the fanbase as they can. The highest earners on the fanbase will pay the club most money, some young single guy might follow the club up and down the country, but they spend half of their money on tickets for other clubs (away games provide the club with nothing revenue wise), whereas corporate contribute shitloads AT the club.

Like it or not (most won't), success will bring far more corporate "support" (and we're just on the first rung of that ladder), so you maximise corporate revenue, and the club will do this by making things like away tickets a privilege for those that pay the club most money.



As for 20 year olds not having enough points, well that's untrue, I have one who has a pretty large total, despite not doing many this year because he's at uni, why ? Because he's done the games in the past, simple as that, like fbh above, he's been at the likes of portsmouth away on TV on a Monday night.

The only games this season that have caused a fuss about not having enough points, are united, arsenal, chelsea, and the 2 games at wembley, this is because they are the most popular (and in 2 of the league game cases because we got a pathetically low allocation), the rest have gone to general sale, so ANYONE who wanted one, could have got one, and consequently got the points.

If you don't think the club are trying to reward the active fans who are going to away games now, and give them the opportunity to catch up the people who have lost interest over the last few years, then you are being naiive.

Of course the club are charging more to people who want to go to away games, I'm not disputing that. But I don't see what is wrong with that? Like I said in an earlier post, Platinum tickets of for people who want to go to away games. Gold are for people who aren't bothered. Platinum is a more desirable product, so it's more expensive, I really don't see the problem with that.

I am not naiive, the way I see it is the standard ticket price has been increased (Platinum replaces Seasoncard) and they have introduced a lower value ticket (Gold). I think it is a good scheme as it gives fans the choice to buy the card that suits them