[OFFICIAL] - Fernando has signed

[Blue Streak]

Jakob please stick around on Bluemoon. Your posts are excellent. Thank you for the insight.

 

[TFC]

Jakob please stick around on Bluemoon. Your posts are excellent. Thank you for the insight.

Agreed, a breath of fresh air among some of the shite that we have to wade through ;)

 

[Andy Morrisons jock strap]

Good post Jacob nice to see another fan that also thinks Garcia is fookin useless to!!

 

[Blue Streak]

Good post Jacob nice to see another fan that also thinks Garcia is fookin useless to!!

Agreed. I found that very interesting.

 

[Googoo]

Being a fan of a rival team, it would be like asking you to comment on a Manchester United player, more often than not, even if you thought you were being 100% neutral, your opinions are fueled by the rivaly. I always had that issue with Benfica players, because Ramires and David Luiz for instance are two obvious names that I never really rated and thought they sold them very well. I guess in Luiz's case I was proven right(despite what PSG paid for him). Ramires is still terrible on the ball, but it seems that his running still is appreciated. Javi Garcia is a much different case. We're talking about a guy that was discarded from Real Madrid(no shame in that, but already leaving the top level). For Benfica he was always at best steady, but never spectacular. He was slow even for the Portuguese League and he didn't really cover that much ground or made much of a difference. He was sold. Matic was giving the chance and he immediately gave Benfica a whole new gear. Even currently, Benfica went out and bought some Serbian guy on the cheap and he does what Garcia did for them. Clearly overpaid and he doesn't have anything special, apart from I guess having a good understanding of the game, being brought up in Spain with Real Madrid and through the youth ranks.

In Portugal, Porto and Benfica have been selling players for huge sums for the last few years. "Sponsored" by funds and mainly Jorge Mendes(Ronaldo and Mourinho's agent who seems to dominate the market). Things are very inflated. Clubs sell players for 30M, but only really cash in 15 most times. It's a bit ridiculous and something that I am against(I would be in favour of clubs having to have 100% of the players economic rights), at the same time, that is probably what has driven the Portuguese League(or rather these two clubs in particular) to put the League right up there near the Italian League in the UEFA rankings and above the French League. The Dutch League has been completely blown away and they probably should be on par with Portugal.

I say this because the business with Portuguese clubs, despite them being on the stock market and having to report these sales to the stock exchance, is very shady to put it this way. For instance, Fernando's contract was running out. He was thought to be leaving on a free, City having agreed personal therms with him. Mangala only became a client of Mendes recently(in the last year when his market value was already sky high). It was thought(back in January) that Porto were using Mangala to get some money for Fernando as well. Mangala's economic rights are owned by Porto and some funds. So the price was tied to the two players. It was given as a done deal with City. Last summer, some well positioned people at the club mentioned that they had rejected a 45M(Euros) offer for him from Chelsea. The process of the sale of Mangala has become very confusing, because basically he should have already signed for City, considering the info that leaked out in January. Back at Porto, some people aren't even sure that Fernando really signed a new contract! So, I do believe that Mangala has 'already' signed for City, I just don't understand what is delaying it. Chelsea bidding for him would make some sense, considering the lure of London and Mourinho being so close to Mendes,

Sporting wise, Porto seems to have moved on from Mangala already. That Dutch defender at the World Cup, Martins Indi, seems to have been signed for a considerable amount(8.5M) and some other moves indicate that Mangala is as good as gone.

Mangala came in from Standard Liege for a reasonable amount(6-7M). Porto eventually sold a part of his economic rights to a fund(as always...). He arrived in 2011/2012, the season after Villas Boas won everything at Porto and all the players were sought after in the market and most of them were wanting to leave and make a big contract abroad. So that season, 11/12, was really difficult. The club had to navigate through finding a new manager(picking AVB's assistant manager), selling players(like Falcao..), buying replacements and resisting offers for others, who stayed but were unsettled. Porto were seeds in the Champions League, but went out in the group stage. Went out early in the Cup. The new manager was never respected and there was always turbulence around the club. In the League, somehow managed to be in contention and in the end stole the league away from Benfica with their choking. So, it was not a good platform for new players to perform. Mangala didn't impress very much. He hardly played. Red flags were raised about him because he made too many errors and committed too many fouls and very hard ones.

In 12/13, Porto also didn't enjoy an easy season. In the previous season Falcao was lost and a decent replacement wasn't found. This time it was Hulk being sold(I know he flopped against City and isn't highly thought of in England generally, but he was great for Porto) and no replacement stepped up, so it was again a struggle the whole season, grinding out results. Very short squad. Some clear handicaps in the team. Again it was not an easy season for new players to flourish. The manager was still questioned(despite having won the league the previous year). Mangala was first used as a left back, he struggled mightly going forward at the start, this was the first season where he played regularly. While he was struggling at left back, the game time(which he lacked the previous season) were helping him settle in and be more composed and assured playing. He eventually moved to centre back and finished the season there with the emergency appearance at left back when necessary(Porto didn't have a backup left back!). While he impressed in many games due to his physicality, he still had too many mental errors, giving away cheap fouls and lacking positional awareness. Otamendi, who partnered him, had a better season.

13/14 was an horrible season for Porto. These last three seasons described, despite two league titles, have been hard to watch. This was one of the worst season of the last decades. The new manager was worse than Moyes. The team lost their identity, leaked comedy goals regularly and no one looked good. Despite this, Mangala became a leader of the team. He is(or was since he is gone) identified with the club, gave his all and is an humble guy. Played the day he found out his dad was passed away. Was made one of the captains of the team.

Porto has had the likes of Ricardo Carvalho and Pepe in the last decade. Both sold for huge sums. Pepe is a good comparison, he also was very raw like Mangala and took a couple of seasons to polish at Porto, but when he left for Real Madrid(2007 30M) he was more polished than Mangala. You're basically buying (huge) potential, but still a very raw player with a lot of unknown about him. I personally think that many of his errors in Portugal were due to him not being challenged enough and relying on his physical attributes to make up for his mental errors. I always imagined that in a tougher league, with a manager on his toes and higher demands of him, that he'd be more focused and alert. Also, as I explained before, Porto didn't have the best of periods recently to nurture players like in the previous years.

He has grown a lot from 2011 to now, with his experience at left back, he also improved technically and he became very decent charging forward from the centre back position. While he hasn't played at the World Cup for France, he started a couple of games(friendly against the Dutch and the key game with Ukraine in the playoff), and he hardly put a foot wrong, I imagined he would be in contention to start given his performances and good critics(and thought Porto would be able to demand his ridiculous release fee of 50M), it seems that he is fourth choice for France. He is definitely better than the Liverpool guy. Koscielny is more of a wild card with the way he anticipates plays and commits to challenges. Mangala would be a mix of both. Great presence, but still very fast and agile. He proved in thos games(playing in the Stade de France) that he has it in him to be more cerebral and steady. He just needs to find that consistency to do it all the time and not have brain dead errors. Maybe take down his aggressiveness a notch and read the game a bit better, given his immense athletic ability, he will always be able to make up for the half second he takes to process better decisions.

So, yeah, 40M... overpriced, but I suppose with these inflated fees(David Luiz for 50M distorts everything) and clubs going after the same players, you just have to overpay now. Clearly. He wasn't a consistent performer Porto. As in, at his best... it would be impossible to replace his impact and things that he did that not many athletes are able to do, but at the same time, overall, you'd be able to find someone less spectacular, but more consistent and steady. Giving you an example, Garay from Benfica and Argentina, was sold for 6M, he is way less spectacular, but he had a much better season. He moved to Russia. Mangala is moving to the Premier League Champions. Why? Potential. I feel like you're buying for a price as if he was the finished article of a top centre back, the thing is... he isn't finished! Back here, you'd love him one game. Hate him the next. Does he have the tools to be great? Definitely. Will he be? No one can say, but he has shown enough to believe he can reach that level. You're paying one year in advance for the level that he probably would have next year.

This guy should post more often, that was a really good read.

Interesting to read. Looks very very expensive to me given the FFP bollocks we've been dealt although to be fair I've never seen him play!

 

[Why Always Ste]

Interesting read from the Porto fan Jakob.

I'm reminding myself that it is just one fans view but I'm even more unsure now about Mangala and would like to see Benatia.

 

[mastermind]

Fernando always played at Porto in the 433, sitting behind two complete midfielders. With most of the top teams in Europe playing with only two midfielders in the 4231, Fernando was always looked as someone who lacked the technical ability to play in a two man midfield, pass the ball around, charge forward, being an all around player. He improved a lot over the years. He is much better on the ball now. You could see that he really tried to stand out more and more with the ball(the guy clearly was trying to show that he is more than a destroyer), he is far from Fernandinho's level driving forward, not only technically, but mainly... just lacking the experience of playing further up the pitch, being more comfortable and being able to execute and decide better. That requires experience that he never really had at Porto since he had two other central midfielders ahead of him.

His job will be to sit in front of the back four, it is what Garcia and Fernandinho did for us last season. Garcia lacks pace and Fernandinho is not a natural holding midfielder. Fernando should get place in the first team without any problems. Yaya and Fernandinho will compete for the box to box role.

 

[cibaman]

Fernando always played at Porto in the 433, sitting behind two complete midfielders. With most of the top teams in Europe playing with only two midfielders in the 4231, Fernando was always looked as someone who lacked the technical ability to play in a two man midfield, pass the ball around, charge forward, being an all around player. He improved a lot over the years. He is much better on the ball now. You could see that he really tried to stand out more and more with the ball(the guy clearly was trying to show that he is more than a destroyer), he is far from Fernandinho's level driving forward, not only technically, but mainly... just lacking the experience of playing further up the pitch, being more comfortable and being able to execute and decide better. That requires experience that he never really had at Porto since he had two other central midfielders ahead of him.

His job will be to sit in front of the back four, it is what Garcia and Fernandinho did for us last season. Garcia lacks pace and Fernandinho is not a natural holding midfielder. Fernando should get place in the first team without any problems. Yaya and Fernandinho will compete for the box to box role.

I don't see Yaya as a box to box player these days, despite his spectacular goal against Villa. It seemed at the end of the season that he was more or less excused defensive duties, with Garcia brought in to compensate. Yaya's role now is basically central midfield playmaker.

I think all 3 will play in CL and tough PL games. It will be the system that we used at Stamford Bridge last year but with Fernando in as an upgrade on Garcia.

 

[mastermind]

Fernando always played at Porto in the 433, sitting behind two complete midfielders. With most of the top teams in Europe playing with only two midfielders in the 4231, Fernando was always looked as someone who lacked the technical ability to play in a two man midfield, pass the ball around, charge forward, being an all around player. He improved a lot over the years. He is much better on the ball now. You could see that he really tried to stand out more and more with the ball(the guy clearly was trying to show that he is more than a destroyer), he is far from Fernandinho's level driving forward, not only technically, but mainly... just lacking the experience of playing further up the pitch, being more comfortable and being able to execute and decide better. That requires experience that he never really had at Porto since he had two other central midfielders ahead of him.

His job will be to sit in front of the back four, it is what Garcia and Fernandinho did for us last season. Garcia lacks pace and Fernandinho is not a natural holding midfielder. Fernando should get place in the first team without any problems. Yaya and Fernandinho will compete for the box to box role.

I don't see Yaya as a box to box player these days, despite his spectacular goal against Villa. It seemed at the end of the season that he was more or less excused defensive duties, with Garcia brought in to compensate. Yaya's role now is basically central midfield playmaker.

I think all 3 will play in CL and tough PL games. It will be the system that we used at Stamford Bridge last year but with Fernando in as an upgrade on Garcia.

Garcia does nothing with the ball, Yaya picks the ball up from our own half and he carries it all the way to the other side of the pitch, this what box to box midfielders do. He hasn't been excused of defensive duties , he has to press/close down players, he has to cover for others and he has to shield the defense. He has problems with pressing and covering .. probably because he's overweight .. Fernandinho is one of the best pressers I've seen in my life, he's mobile enough to cover for anyone who's playing alongside him. Defensively Fernandinho is more complete, going forward they have different styles, Yaya is more of a ball hogger, he hogs the ball, caresses it, slows the game down, whereas Fernandinho does the opposite, he moves the ball very quickly and swiftly, he doesn't slow the game down but rather sets a high tempo, which is what Pellegrini likes.

 

[GeekinGav]

at least making a song for Fernando should be quite easy.