Oleg Shatov

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Aguerovic said:
If you actually read my history of posting about Shatov, you would find that I have always said such things about Shatov, that you are wanting me to say. In fact, I always said Shatov is the type of player that is "worth keeping an eye on" because he will be the next thing in football. I have experience in what I am talking about, you don't. I have tracked Hazard, Mata, kDB all before they turned mainstream. Yes, of course he has improved. His stats this season speaks volumes about his improvement, I don't necessarily need to say this.

I absolutely do agree about KDB being a better player than Shatov last season and season before, that's no shit. But you would find my argumentation about Shatov is all based on this season. This season, Shatov is just as good as KDB. And all fairness, it's the present that counts the most. You can't use past seasons to compare players. That's like preferring Rooney over Kane because Rooney has a better past, where as Kane hasn't been impressive pre 14/15.

I have never, I repeat, I have never said Shatov has always been a great player. His season this year, could be comparable to KDB last season at Wolfsburg actually, where it's the season transforming the player's potential into a finished product. In fact, before KDB's breakthrough Wolfsburg season, he was never seen as a "great" player. He had always showed great future potential at Genk, Bremen but he never had a finish product (such as goals), which is what Shatov was before this season. I would argue what Coutinho is currently. A player with huge potential but still can't find the finishing touch, but I know he has the killer instinct to score a lot of goals in a season. He's only managed 5 goals, 5 assists last season. Yet, anyone who watches him, knows he is much much more capable. He still hasn't matured as a talent.

Anyways, let's allow time decide. KDB highest goal tally is 10 in a season. Shatov is likely to break it if he carries this form. In all honesty, lets be fair, it's international break and not much to discuss about footy. I'd debate about Shatov lol.
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Which I assume you're basing on these stats you keep showing for this season. Here's the stats for club & country so far this season:

Oleg Shatov 21 appearances 7 goals 6 assists (or 22 apps 7 goals 8 assists) from the sites I looked at.
Kevin De Bruyne 21 appearances 11 goals 13 assists (or 19 apps 10 goals 11 assists) from the same sites.

Even this season it's fairly one sided, you're picking & choosing stats (i.e. using league & CL rather than ALL competitions).

De Bruyne is younger, playing in a harder league, against harder opposition in CL & is still outperforming Shatov this season & seasons of past.

Sure Shatov may become a good player but he's not close to the required level of top teams currently & certainly isn't on a par with KdB as you've suggested. Time will tell as you've said if he can reach a level like that but until now you're hugely overselling him & should acknowledge that fact or no one will take you seriously.
 
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stablemcfc said:
Which I assume you're basing on these stats you keep showing for this season. Here's the stats for club & country so far this season:

Oleg Shatov 21 appearances 7 goals 6 assists (or 22 apps 7 goals 8 assists) from the sites I looked at.
Kevin De Bruyne 21 appearances 11 goals 13 assists (or 19 apps 10 goals 11 assists) from the same sites.

Even this season it's fairly one sided, you're picking & choosing stats (i.e. using league & CL rather than ALL competitions).

De Bruyne is younger, playing in a harder league, against harder opposition in CL & is still outperforming Shatov this season & seasons of past.

Sure Shatov may become a good player but he's not close to the required level of top teams currently & certainly isn't on a par with KdB as you've suggested. Time will tell as you've said if he can reach a level like that but until now you're hugely overselling him & should acknowledge that fact or no one will take you seriously.
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Shatov's pre season Super cup doesn't count. And I do not count International games. My argumentation has always been club, let's keep it that way.

Shatov 16 apps, 7 goals, 8 assists, if you were to include both league and CL. KDB league and CL, 14 games, 4 goals, 5 assists.

If you were to include cups, KDB would rise to, 17 apps, 7 goals, 8 assists, not including Super cup. But Shatov has never played in the Cup this year. Football cups in Russia are very irrelevant, most of the time Zenit would field their B side with youngsters giving the main players rest. Granted, the site we are using are different.
 
stablemcfc said:
And I posted a video of a player who's supposedly on an even level with him performing far better and you got upset that it covered more matches.

Feel free to compare the stats of the 2 players in question over the last few seasons to see who's been the better player (in fact don't waste your time, it's not Shatov).



Nothing unfortunate about it, his opinion has nothing to back it up other than 3/4 CL games this season & 12 (?) league games - these games supposedly prove he's a better player than Sterling & as good as De Bruyne. Even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If there was a reasonable point of view put forward (e.g. "look how he's improved this season; could be worth keeping an eye on") rather than clearly overselling someone to an obsessive level then maybe people might take him seriously. It's to the point where it's hard to tell either way whether he actually does rate Shatov that much or he's just a large WUM & likes the attention from it. (In fact it's almost certainly the latter but I still enjoy having a debate on silly topics)
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You're not really having a debate though, as that implies that you at least take on board what others are saying...

Regardless, let's assume, hypothetically, that his current form is an indication of his future form and that he has had a breakthrough. Historically, most players from the Russian league have failed, dismally, to recreate any of their good from when transferring to England. The following is a list of Russians who have played in the Premier League

Then you have a look at a player like Jo who in Russia was playing for one of the bigger teams, scoring at more than a goal every two games, and came to the Premier League and did four fifths of fuckall.

Even if Shatov's form now is an indication of future performances, to simply claim that he will be able to transpose that to the Premier League and be "better than Sterling and on par with KDB" is a simply ludicrous statement to make in light of the actual evidence to the contrary.
 
Arse shaver tailed off bloody quick, he was shite by the first xmas he was at the club. Had a big opinion of himself as i recall saying how Arsenal were a spring board for him to get to Barca.
He also looks like he stabs kittens with a manic laugh of an evening the weirdy fucker.
 
billymumphrey said:
You're not really having a debate though, as that implies that you at least take on board what others are saying...

Regardless, let's assume, hypothetically, that his current form is an indication of his future form and that he has had a breakthrough. Historically, most players from the Russian league have failed, dismally, to recreate any of their good from when transferring to England. The following is a list of Russians who have played in the Premier League

Then you have a look at a player like Jo who in Russia was playing for one of the bigger teams, scoring at more than a goal every two games, and came to the Premier League and did four fifths of fuckall.

Even if Shatov's form now is an indication of future performances, to simply claim that he will be able to transpose that to the Premier League and be "better than Sterling and on par with KDB" is a simply ludicrous statement to make in light of the actual evidence to the contrary.
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Now this is a great point. I commend you for it. That's why I keep saying, Sterling & KDB are not comparable to Shatov yet. I would love Shatov at PL and see if he can replicate his form here. Shatov is a great player but we need to find it if he can do it the same here. But his success against top teams in UCL does tell me he is capable but still.
 
Aguerovic said:
Shatov's pre season Super cup doesn't count. And I do not count International games. My argumentation has always been club, let's keep it that way.

Shatov 16 apps, 7 goals, 8 assists, if you were to include both league and CL. KDB league and CL, 14 games, 4 goals, 5 assists.

If you were to include cups, KDB would rise to, 17 apps, 7 goals, 8 assists, not including Super cup. But Shatov has never played in the Cup this year. Football cups in Russia are very irrelevant, most of the time Zenit would field their B side with youngsters giving the main players rest. Granted, the site we are using are different.
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So as I just said you're picking & choosing stats to paint a picture that isn't true. You've disregarded anything that he's not done well in which dilute his so called amazing stats, and only picked games he's done well in - whilst simultaneously disregarding matches De Bruyne has done well in to reduce his stats, and then are claiming the remaining statistics show the whole story.

If the B players were playing & Shatov didn't play then Shatov wouldn't get an "appearance" in the stats I used. I only checked for games he started, so if anything I under-represented his appearances as he may have come on as a substitute in some matches where he didn't get goals/assists that I didn't notice.
 
Aguerovic said:
Now this is a great point. I commend you for it. That's why I keep saying, Sterling & KDB are not comparable to Shatov yet. I would love Shatov at PL and see if he can replicate his form here. Shatov is a great player but we need to find it if he can do it the same here. But his success against top teams in UCL does tell me he is capable but still.
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You've got it round the wrong way, there is no way that you can compare Shatov to Sterling and KDB, as already, Sterling and KDB have outperformed him throughout their whole careers.

Taken from wikipedia
  • Shatov - 224 Games, 33 Goals, 20 international Caps.
  • Sterling - 105 Games, 22 Goals, 18 International Caps.
  • KDB - 192 Games, 42 Goals, 38 International Caps.
Both KDB and Sterling are younger then Shatov, and have played in stronger leagues, and stronger teams, and already are outperforming him.

Sterling has a better goals to game ratio to him, and has almost already eclipsed his number of international caps and is five years younger then him. He is already better and in all likelihood still can get better! Again - to reiterate he is playing in a stronger league, against stronger opposition week in week out.

KDB has played roughly 15% fewer games, yet has scored 25% more goals and has almost double the amount of international caps, might I add, for the team that is currently ranked at number 1 in the world rankings. Again he has played in a stronger league, against stronger opposition week in week out.

Both England and Belgium are in the top 10 in the world rankings. Russia isn't even in the top 20. Sterling has two less international caps, whilst being five years younger than Shatov. He is already contributing more on a world stage. Likewise KDB is contributing more at all levels already whilst being younger. There is no comparison because they are hands down better then Shatov.

You take any measure (transfer fee paid, goals to game, international caps, goals, assists, clubs they play for, leagues they play) across their careers to date, to normalise against outliers, and it is clear for all to see that Shatov is not as good as these players.
 
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