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Our supporters.
- Thread starter ManCitizens.
- Start date
TGR
Well-Known Member
The Road Sweeper said:Right, so far we've had:
The fan base is too old
Too many women
Too many children
Not enough young lads
Shit pre match entertainment
All seater stadium
The wrong songs
The wrong transfers
The wrong style of football
Stadium accoustics
Stadium layout
Sanatised stadium
The wrong opponents
Singing sections split in two
The wrong kick off time
The location of away fans
City Square
The roof's too high
Tickets too expensive
Too many whingers
Not enough working class fans
Too many middle class fans
Many of the above have existed for the last hundred years, at every stadium in England. The simple fact is that previously you probably weren't aware because like minded people would gravitate to each other.
One poster can't understand why fans will sing in the concourse or in the pub but not at the match. Simple, It's because they're with like minded people when they're doing it and if you want to join in you move towards them, if you don't like it you can move away. You can't do that in a modern all seater, all ticket stadium.
Think back to Maine Road. When your dad, or mum, first took you then you probably went in the Platt Lane or the North Stand and sat down. Then, when you were able to go on your own with your mates you went on the Kippax. Once you were a bit older and liked a sing song then you went in the corner of the kippax. Here you would find other people that liked the same things, singing, jumping up and down, abusing the away fans, etc. Then when a bit older, if you stlll wanted to sing, you gradually moved towards the North Stand. If that wasn't your thing and you could afford it, then you could sit in the Main Stand.
The point is, you had a choice.
Now we don't. You cant just turn up and decide where to go, or who to go with. You're stuck with the people who sit next to you, or near you. I know there are nominal family stands and singing sections but the vast majority of fans are mixed up and it's no wonder the atmosphere is flat. The "sit down" brigade are behind the "stand up" mob. Chidren are next to pissed up lads. Mates are split up.
One way to get the atmosphere better and get people in the ground early would be to introduce areas of the ground that have tickets but no seat numbers, The entire SS lower for instance. That would make people get in earlier to get the popular seats and allow mates to sit together where they can sing and swear, abuse the away fans, whatever, without feeling inhibited by sitting next to people they don't know. It would be a logistical nightmare, the club and police would hate it, but it would work. Getting like minded people together is the only way to produce a improved atmosphere.
Another way would be for the club to introduce a mass relocation exercise, which they are highly unlikely to do. Why should they? The stadium is full every week, it's piss easy to police and steward.
However, The club DO have an opportuniy to address the problem when the expansion takes place. We will then have an area of the ground that has no historical culture. But will City do what is necessary?
Excellent post Mr Sweeper!
I remember as a kid we used to get to Maine Road at 1.00pm just as the turnstiles were opening to
make sure we got 'our spot' on the Kippax - at the top of the first tunnel.
The idea of having no seat numbers is a good one.
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Deleted member 52846
Guest
There are thousands of sets of fans across the planet who think very differently to that.moomba said:If you want to sing, sing. If you don't good luck to you.
Football isnt all about how much noise you can make for everyone.
Fans of most clubs in the world look upon it as their duty to vocally and colourfully support their team. The match isn't just about the players and the scoreline, the noise and colour supporters generate is also a huge part of the match.
You see players who play for clubs with great fans and they really go and show their appreciation at the end of the game. We have players who've played for some of the best sets of fans around - Sevilla, Atlèti, Hamburg, Balkan clubs and national team fans, San Lorenzo, Independiente, Argentina, Marseille, Benfica, Fiorentina, Donetsk...all really good sets of fans. And people wonder why the players don't make the effort to come over and applaud us after games. I often think 'I wonder if the players are disappointed with us as a set of fans?!' None of them would ever openly say it (although Roy Keane did with his "prawn sandwich" comments a few years back), but I doubt the players really get a buzz about walking out of the tunnel at our ground and coming out to play for us lot. I know it's only a job for them, but we really rubber stamp that it's just a job for them. We don't really create an experience for them.
For some reason here in England, for most sets of fans, going to the football isn't about being part of the match, it's more akin to a trip to the theatre. We're spectators, not supporters.
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Deleted member 52846
Guest
I want more flags and banners, and bigger ones. I want more scarves. But I really don't want a drum! I just think people need to make more effort.
If people really took it upon themselves to start chants in the vocal areas and for people around them to really join in for ages, and for people in the sitting/bigger stands to join in with the front man that is the [tiny] vocal areas (it REALLY needs to be a much bigger vocal stand, fuck the away fans off and create a huge East Stand Corner and South Stand vocal section. For example I don't want to stand behind the goal and make noise but I'd stand in 109 and make noise so keep make it 109-120 ALL vocal City fans) and the atmosphere would improve no end.
No drum is needed if the effort is put in by evoeryone.
If people really took it upon themselves to start chants in the vocal areas and for people around them to really join in for ages, and for people in the sitting/bigger stands to join in with the front man that is the [tiny] vocal areas (it REALLY needs to be a much bigger vocal stand, fuck the away fans off and create a huge East Stand Corner and South Stand vocal section. For example I don't want to stand behind the goal and make noise but I'd stand in 109 and make noise so keep make it 109-120 ALL vocal City fans) and the atmosphere would improve no end.
No drum is needed if the effort is put in by evoeryone.
East Level 2
Well-Known Member
I agree with getting like-minded people together but part of the problem with your solution is that unreserved seating is deemed less safe and therefore is restricted to something like 80 or 90 percent of capacity.The Road Sweeper said:One way to get the atmosphere better and get people in the ground early would be to introduce areas of the ground that have tickets but no seat numbers, The entire SS lower for instance. That would make people get in earlier to get the popular seats and allow mates to sit together where they can sing and swear, abuse the away fans, whatever, without feeling inhibited by sitting next to people they don't know. It would be a logistical nightmare, the club and police would hate it, but it would work. Getting like minded people together is the only way to produce a improved atmosphere.
A mass relocation exercise would be easy to implement. It would be a pain in the arse as a pen and paper exercise but a piece of piss with a computer. But the club is restricted it what it can do regarding allowing standing during games. The ground licencing authorities don't give a stuff about "atmosphere" and the club has to balance standing areas with abiding by the rules. The trouble is too many fans won't accept this even though it's a simple principle.
We need the away fans on the South Stand roof once the expansion has taken place and the South Stand lower (and the south ends of the East Stand and Colin Bell Stand) to have very relaxed stewarding. Ideally this could spread to South Stand level 2. EL2 and CB2 will be fucked in terms of atmosphere once the "premium" seat nonsense is implemented.
Hung
Well-Known Member
The fact is that over the last 30 years, things have changed and if you were to read the forum of any 'big' club, the atmosphere debate features. Small clubs in small grounds these days can't believe their luck that they are playing in the Premiership (it never used to be like that). As a consequence, their fans go mental all game. As an example, Selhurst Park never used to be a ground renowned for its atmosphere, but it seems that it has been transformed into a cauldron. This is down to the fact that Palace have been out of the top league for a decade. It's the same at Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff etc. Double the size of their grounds, give them 10 years in the Premiership and you'll find that the atmosphere at their grounds isn't quite so intimidating.
The more used we get to success, the bigger the ground becomes and the more we become established as one of the 'Big Four', the more sanitised the atmosphere will become. It's not the fault of City fans per se, it's a phenomena that effects English football. Alternatively, we can move back to a Maine Road esque ground and struggle for survival with the occasional relegation and experience a better atmosphere.
The more used we get to success, the bigger the ground becomes and the more we become established as one of the 'Big Four', the more sanitised the atmosphere will become. It's not the fault of City fans per se, it's a phenomena that effects English football. Alternatively, we can move back to a Maine Road esque ground and struggle for survival with the occasional relegation and experience a better atmosphere.
moomba said:If you want to sing, sing. If you don't good luck to you.
Football isnt all about how much noise you can make for everyone.
I agree..all that singing and jumping around spills the soup from your flask and makes the lettuce fall out of your sandwich..
;)
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Deleted member 52846
Guest
With Palace it isn't because they've been out of the Prem for eight years and now they're back in the big time. Palace fans were getting sick to death of the shit atmospheres in English football so took it upon themselves to change it. They looked at different sets of fans around Europe and made links with one club's Ultras (can't remember which club) and made the effort to visit that club and experience what supporting a football club is about.Hung said:The fact is that over the last 30 years, things have changed and if you were to read the forum of any 'big' club, the atmosphere debate features. Small clubs in small grounds these days can't believe their luck that they are playing in the Premiership (it never used to be like that). As a consequence, their fans go mental all game. As an example, Selhurst Park never used to be a ground renowned for its atmosphere, but it seems that it has been transformed into a cauldron. This is down to the fact that Palace have been out of the top league for a decade. It's the same at Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff etc. Double the size of their grounds, give them 10 years in the Premiership and you'll find that the atmosphere at their grounds isn't quite so intimidating.
The more used we get to success, the bigger the ground becomes and the more we become established as one of the 'Big Four', the more sanitised the atmosphere will become. It's not the fault of City fans per se, it's a phenomena that effects English football. Alternatively, we can move back to a Maine Road esque ground and struggle for survival with the occasional relegation and experience a better atmosphere.
From there they created their own Ultras group called Holmesdale Fanatics. Some of the lads involved have said it's been like a full time job getting to the level they have reached now. They've been at this level for a fair few years now though, even before they nearly went out of business they were getting very good.
They're organised and up for it. If they were in City's situation they'd still be creating the noise because of the hard work their lads put into it all. It's not just about turning up and singing because they're back in the Prem with Palace.
Eccles Blue
Well-Known Member
samharris said:moomba said:If you want to sing, sing. If you don't good luck to you.
Football isnt all about how much noise you can make for everyone.
I agree..all that singing and jumping around spills the soup from your flask and makes the lettuce fall out of your sandwich..
;)
And where do the prawns get to, I found one under the seat last season!!! ;-)
But it would be better for City and most of the fans if the fans did what they are supposed to do and support the team.moomba said:If you want to sing, sing. If you don't good luck to you.
Football isnt all about how much noise you can make for everyone.
Chelsea Bayen Super Cup was particularly memorable. At one end, Chelsea prawn munchers sat in silence clutching their shirts and praying, whilst Bayern fans losing for much of the game, but singing their heads off.
No point exhorting fans to sing. They will or they wont. I think the singing sections, or Ultras like Palace have are the way to go. They encourage others, and it only takes 200 or so