Palestinian Boy Kidnapped and Murdered.

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Rascal said:
Im really struggling to see how massed tanks can solve anythiing

The more I learn about this, the more I think Isreal have become the sycophantic bastards bankrolled by an all powerful American Jewish elite

Will read more and apologise if my first thoughts are misguided
Tanks and violence will of course never solve anything.

The trouble with trying to find out more is where to start. Do you start in 70AD, when the Romans destroyed Judea, killing a third of the residents and exiling another third? Do you start in 1881 when the assassination of Tsar Alexander II set off severe anti-Jewish pogroms, which caused mass emigration and a resurgence of Zionism among European Jews? Or in 1897, with the first Zionist Congress?

Do you start in 1917, when Allenby took Jerusalem, the Ottoman empire fell and Balfour issued his infamous declaration? Or in 1923, when the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate over Trans-Jordan? Or the 1929 Arab riots? Ot the Holocaust and the events of the immediate post-war period leading to the partition and declaration of the Jewish state? Or the Six-Day war in 1967? Ot the Intifada and its aftermath? And then there's the wider global political issues, which saw the Middle East as one of the proxy Cold War cockpits and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

The point is you can't look at one bit in isolation and pretend you understand what's going on there. Every significant event since 70AD has had a hand in shaping the current landscape. You're an intelligent guy Russ but I defy you to gain any sort of in-depth knowledge of the history and still say one side is right and the other wrong.
 
Barker said:
Mahmoud Abbas slams Hamas over rocket attacks on Israel: ‘What are you trying to achieve?’

AMALLAH and JERUSALEM — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Hamas to end its hail of rockets on Israel as Israeli leaders signalled they were preparing to invade the Gaza Strip to stop the barrages.

Mr. Abbas spoke Thursday as the Palestinian death toll from three days of intensified Israeli air strikes in Hamas-controlled Gaza neared 90.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a televised address there would be “additional phases” to the military operation and that a “difficult, complex” battle lies ahead.

“What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?” Mr. Abbas asked on Palestine TV, without explicitly naming Hamas, which recently lent its backing to his government after a seven-year rift. “We prefer to fight with wisdom and politics.”.


It was the first time he has openly criticized Hamas for firing hundreds of rockets into Israel over the past month. The public nature of his critique may further strain his political alliance with the hardline Islamists, which has already developed cracks over finances and his denunciation of the abduction of three Israeli teenagers, whose killing Israel has blamed on the militant group.

In New York, United Nations chief Ban Ki-moon warned the Security Council of the “risk of an all-out escalation in Israel and Gaza, with the threat of a ground offensive still palpable.”

“It is unacceptable for citizens on both sides to permanently live in fear of the next aerial attack,” he said. “My paramount concern is the safety and well-being of all civilians, no matter where they are.”

He also condemned the “indiscriminate” rocket fire at Israel.

Mr. Abbas said Egyptian efforts to reach a truce have failed, and he was in contact with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in an attempt to end the violence. Israel’s current military campaign is the third in less than six years.

“It’s not important who wins or loses,” Mr. Abbas said. “What’s important is to end this bloodshed.”

He patched up his breach with Hamas as peace negotiations with Israel collapsed. The Hamas-backed Palestinian government, formed June 2, has been beset by disputes over finances, with Mr. Abbas declining to pick up the payroll for 58,000 employees of the former Hamas government in Gaza for fear the terrorist taint would scare off donors. Canada, the U.S. and the European Union consider Hamas a terrorist organization.

Mr. Abbas delivered his appeal to end the bloodshed just hours after Israel disclosed it is mobilizing 20,000 soldiers for a possible ground invasion.

“Where is this leading, is it leading to a ground force incursion? I can’t confirm that,” Israel army spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Peter Lerner said. “I can confirm we are making all the necessary preparations to be ready for that.”

This week, the military was authorized to call up as many as 40,000 reserve troops.

Meanwhile, the Iron Dome defence system has intercepted more than 100 of the projectiles destined for major Israeli cities. It is designed to shoot down rockets headed toward populated areas, while allowing others to fall where they can do no harm.

In southern Israel, the area hit hardest by the rockets, people have been ordered to stay in close range of shelter. Summer camps have been cancelled, motorists have been forced to jump out of their cars, and high school students took their final exams in bomb shelters. Many people are using a smartphone application that alerts them to incoming rockets when they can’t hear air-raid sirens.

Lian Assayag had planned a big wedding in Ashkelon. But her special day was dashed because of the rocket fire. She decided instead to get married Thursday night inside a bomb shelter at a synagogue in nearby Ashdod.

“I have mixed feelings. Everything got messed up,” she told Channel 10 TV. “It’ll be OK.”

Bloomberg News, with files from The Associated Press

Bloomberg News was founded by an extremely rich and powerful Jewish fella called Michael Bloomberg. Their articles being pro Israel anti Palestinian I would certainly take with a pinch of salt.
 
mcmanus said:
Bloomberg News was founded by an extremely rich and powerful Jewish fella called Michael Bloomberg. Their articles being pro Israel anti Palestinian I would certainly take with a pinch of salt.

The insinuation is that Barker could well be posting Israeli propaganda ?

Marvelous :-)
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
mcmanus said:
Bloomberg News was founded by an extremely rich and powerful Jewish fella called Michael Bloomberg. Their articles being pro Israel anti Palestinian I would certainly take with a pinch of salt.
So the Jew Kaufman is unbiased but the Jew Bloomberg isn't?
I'd say Kaufman is wary of the demographics of his constituency and knows which side his bread is buttered.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
mcmanus said:
Bloomberg News was founded by an extremely rich and powerful Jewish fella called Michael Bloomberg. Their articles being pro Israel anti Palestinian I would certainly take with a pinch of salt.
So the Jew Kaufman is unbiased but the Jew Bloomberg isn't?

One is a Zionist and one isn't.

I don't see the conflict myself.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I defy you to gain any sort of in-depth knowledge of the history and still say one side is right and the other wrong.
I consider myself to have in-depth knowledge and I'm quite comfortable saying one side is wrong. The injustices lie heavily on the Palestinians side. Effectively they're owed a debt of land, sovereignty and self-determination which has been denied to them. Israel is in a position to pay that debt, it occupies the land, it can give it, but will not, has no reason to and doesn't even want to. There can be no moving forward until that is acknowledged. When 'peace' (reparations for wrongs done) is treated as trade, rather than what it is, a debt, this is exactly why there are no grounds for optimism and why there will be no deal and why this situation is without end. Without that change in mindset there will be nothing especially as the status quo suits Israel just fine.
 
Barker said:
To bring about real peace, drop the false narrative of moral equivalency and focus on the real culprits

Here’s a bit of wisdom that cannot be repeated often enough: Deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime. If you don’t believe me, ask U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon, who was adamant on this point last year, when Syria’s president Assad, aided by Hamas’ brethren Hezbollah, engaged in the very same tactics we now see coming out of Gaza, albeit with much more devastating results. And if that’s not enough, consider a regime that targets not only the enemy’s civilians but also its own: Appearing on TV the other day, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri waxed poetic about the merits of using men, women, and children as human shields, a heinous tactic that puts every civilian in Gaza in needless risk.

The world has repeatedly—and rightly—asked that Israel take measures to protect the civilian population of Gaza. Israel chooses its targets very carefully, and, knowing that Hamas’ cowardly creeps would have likely stacked every strategic building with armfuls of kids, according to the instructions of its leaders, it takes extraordinary measures to provide ample warning before each strike. These include text messages and calls, leaflets dropped from above, and “knock on the roof” measures, or firing flares to signal an upcoming strike. As Will Saletan correctly noted in an article today in Slate, “The worst civilian death toll—seven, at the latest count—occurred in a strike on the Khan Yunis home of a terrorist commander. Hamas calls it a ‘massacre against women and children.’ But residents say the family got both a warning call and a knock on the roof. An Israeli security official says Israeli forces didn’t fire their missile until the family had left the house. The official didn’t understand why some members of the family, and apparently their neighbors, went back inside. The residents say they were trying to ‘form a human shield.’ ”

These are not interpretations, spins, or attempts at hasbara. These are facts. Which makes it all the more infuriating when people who should know better ignore them and cling instead to bizarre notions of equivalency. Speaking at a conference in Tel Aviv earlier this week, the White House Coordinator for the Middle East, Philip Gordon, declared: “This is a moment for leaders on both sides to demonstrate reason and calm,” mainly because “there has clearly been far too much recrimination and some reprehensible examples of racism on both sides.” Gordon then called on the Israelis in the room to work toward finalized borders, and promised that the United States will protect Israel and “guarantee” its safety—presumably, one assumes, in the same way this administration has “guaranteed” the security of Iraq.

The laughable nature of Gordon’s remarks was demonstrated very clearly when the conference in which he was speaking was interrupted because of missiles launched at Tel Aviv from Gaza, which Israel, striving to work toward finalizing its borders, exited from in 2005; it is hard to escape the conclusion that the result of exiting the West Bank at this point in time would be twice as many rockets with a much greater range. As The Times of Israel editor David Horovitz wrote in a stellar account of Gordon’s speech, “sometimes you don’t know whether to laugh or cry.”

Cry is more like it. Turn on any Western radio station, read any newspaper, listen to almost any politician address the situation, and you’ll here a simple and compelling story: Two sides, Israel and Palestine, are locked in a bloody tango, each responsible for the taking of innocent lives, each culpable for the violence that, like a demonic Old Faithful, testifies to the might of ancient and irrational hatreds. If you believe this story, you also believe that the only way to stop the cycle of violence is to exert pressure on both sides, and since Israel is the stronger and more established party, it would make much sense to start with Jerusalem before turning to the Palestinians, who after all still leave mostly under Israeli occupation. It’s a neat formulation, and it fits in perfectly with a certain genteel liberal worldview. It’s also dead wrong.

Not that Israeli military control of Palestinians is a good idea. I oppose it, both for what it does to Palestinians and for what it does to Israelis. The occupation is wrong. But it is also wrong to believe that ending it depends solely on Israel. As Israel’s experience in Gaza proves, disengagement does not necessarily bring about peace; the only party that can guarantee a successful accommodation is the Palestinian leadership, which, to date, has been far, far, far less than adequate in its efforts to sincerely end the conflict. Rather than try and work towards reconciliation, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas invited Hamas to join his government, thereby sentencing the residents of the West Bank to life under the same sort of ideology that bans hip-hop music, executes gays, and uses its entire population as human shields that already afflicts the Palestinians in Gaza.

Naturally, you’ll hear little of that on the news. But while persistent disregard of reality may be forgiven from pundits, it is inexcusable when coming from other nations and international bodies. Of course, there are some nations that will blame Israel first no matter what she does, and I’m sure those nations have good reasons for doing so—emotional reasons, religious reasons, financial reasons, or the sheer and undeniable pleasure of hypocrisy. That’s their business. But what’s infuriating are those who espouse their formulas of equivalency with passionate, doe-eyed sincerity. Those people are not just misguided, but responsible for the erosion of a moral principle all civilized people should cherish and protect.

The principle is simple: Some things are just plain evil, and when things are evil, they should be prohibited by law and by the consensus of right-thinking people and nations and prevented with all the means at our disposal. Raining down rockets on a civilian population is evil. Instructing one’s operatives to kidnap and murder children is evil. Using children as human shields is evil. Putting missile launchers underneath hospitals is evil. People who do these things are supposed to pay a price, so that they don’t do them again. That’s how the international system is supposed to work.

Moral equivalency vitiates this crucial principle, which is precisely what makes it not only immoral, as Ruth Wisse noted in a recent excellent article, but also the enemy of international law. By failing to actively support Israel’s efforts to defend herself, well-meaning writers and diplomats are gutting the moral and legal basis by which gassing people, or burning them alive, or kidnapping and murdering children, or occupying land that doesn’t belong to you, can be credibly seen as wrong. The message of ignoring international law is that might makes right—which makes it easier for tyrants like Vladimir Putin to treat Western protestations with the contempt that they unfortunately so richly deserve.

So, what should the international community do about an organization that has been designated as a terror group by the United States Department of State, which fires rockets at civilian targets at a rate of one every ten minutes, with no other aim than killing men, women, and children and rendering daily life in Israel impossible? The answer is not dispatching more John Kerrys, or condemning bloodshed, or asking “both sides” to stop. The answer, whatever side you are on, is to start being intellectually honest and admitting that the fight at hand does not have two responsible parties but one. Once that happens, and once clear and real collective measures are taken to bring terrorist organizations to justice, it might be possible to talk about peace.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/178820/america-stop-war-gaza#I88jFRGP8KC0eIFL.01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-an ... KC0eIFL.01</a>

FREE PALESTINE FROM HAMAS!

Now lets look at Tabletmag ...... Guess what? Its another Jewish publication with pro Israel views.

I'm kinda seeing a pattern here.
 
dazdon said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
mcmanus said:
Bloomberg News was founded by an extremely rich and powerful Jewish fella called Michael Bloomberg. Their articles being pro Israel anti Palestinian I would certainly take with a pinch of salt.
So the Jew Kaufman is unbiased but the Jew Bloomberg isn't?

One is a Zionist and one isn't.

I don't see the conflict myself.
You don't see anything that requires a modicum of rational thought. Every time you post you justisfy my less than flattering opinion of you.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
dazdon said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
So the Jew Kaufman is unbiased but the Jew Bloomberg isn't?

One is a Zionist and one isn't.

I don't see the conflict myself.
You don't see anything that requires a modicum of rational thought. Every time you post you justisfy my less than flattering opinion of you.

You're not even cute.

If you could spell justify I might just listen to you numbnuts.
 
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