Paul Dickov

[Shaelumstash]

You took it well and i appreciate that but i stick by my opinion.


Again you are so blinkered and wrong in your second statement it is almost embarrassing!We as fans had no say in what players we had playing for us.That was determined by one thing...MONEY and we had none!We knew we were often watching a crock of shit and some players WERE,Dickov NOT included.It was all we could afford.Do you think we didn't want to see world class players in blue shirt??To say we craved run of the mill journeyman over the likes of Aguro or Silva is an incredible statement!Did you really think before you typed that???

Tracking back,dying for the shirt and chasing waste paper or as big a part of being succesful as all the skill in the world.Look at Barcelona,one of the best teams in the world and also one of the most hard working too.Perfect example in todays City team......Zabba.

It wasn't US the fans who held the club back,without us there wouldn't have been a club in the dark years.Do you think we loved turning up week after week in piss pouring rain getting humiliated by Bury and Stockport?Again,so it sinks in....one thing held the club back for years.MONEY.....we had none.No money and a lack of investment.We now have it hence the success and the better players.We are shopping in Harrods now instead of Poundsavers.

Yes you don't win anything without effort. You also don't win anything without ability. But the likes of you value effort far more than ability because you can see some of yourself, what you'd give playing for City.

I admire and value technical brilliance more than effort because I know I could never be that good. Class players like Anelka and Robinho aren't remembered fondly or called "legends" because they didn't work as hard as little Dicky, but who were the better players? Who would you prefer in the side now? Who have had more successful careers and had more success?

We were shopping in a different market in the late 90s, I appreciate that. But the fact remains, fans like you assume if we'd had 11 players with Dickov's work rate we'd have been better. I'd argue if we had 11 players of Dicky's ability we'd be playing Sunday League.

Ian Bishop played in that era, far far more talented player. Won't be remembered as a "legend" though. Well I certainly hold him in higher esteem as a footballer than I do Dickov.

Ok.I have bitten my tongue....trust me yes this has been me biting my tongue.No more.You Sir are a knob of the highest order and i would still rather sit/stand next to a plastc seat than next to you.

Firstly don't tell ME what i think,you haven't got a clue and secondly don't say,''The likes of you'' as if i am some sort of fucking piece of shit you found under your shoe you patronising knob!

I see nothing of myself in any City player,i was never good enough to even be a Paul Dickov,the worst player to pull on a City shirt in your opinion,if i had been i would have a more comfortable lifestyle than i have now.I never said if we had 11 players of Dickov's work rate we would we'd have been better.I said the greatest teams and players add workrate to their ability.Some of the best players in the world also chase waste paper too as they recognise you need hard work as well as ability.You have also mxed up the analogy between work rate and ability.

Annelka never endeared himself to the fans because he was a miserable sod who we knew was looking for a way out as soon as he could.Robinho similar,add a mardarse to the equation.All the ability in the world but if you sulk,hide and don't apply it you are a waste of a shirt,as he often was,especially away from home.

Ian Bishop is also a City legend in my eyes,though this thread is about Paul Dickov,not players who are considered City legends.

Would i rather be watching the 1999 team as opposed to todays team?No!Anyone who says yes would be a fool.That doesn't detract from what Paul Dickov gave for this club in those years,in spite of his limited talent.

The likes of you need to calm down. Paul Dickov gave us 2 relegations, one of them down to the third tier of English football. Helping to get us back up is the least he could do! Far from a "legend" in my eyes.

 

[paulchapo]

Yes you don't win anything without effort. You also don't win anything without ability. But the likes of you value effort far more than ability because you can see some of yourself, what you'd give playing for City.

I admire and value technical brilliance more than effort because I know I could never be that good. Class players like Anelka and Robinho aren't remembered fondly or called "legends" because they didn't work as hard as little Dicky, but who were the better players? Who would you prefer in the side now? Who have had more successful careers and had more success?

We were shopping in a different market in the late 90s, I appreciate that. But the fact remains, fans like you assume if we'd had 11 players with Dickov's work rate we'd have been better. I'd argue if we had 11 players of Dicky's ability we'd be playing Sunday League.

Ian Bishop played in that era, far far more talented player. Won't be remembered as a "legend" though. Well I certainly hold him in higher esteem as a footballer than I do Dickov.

Ok.I have bitten my tongue....trust me yes this has been me biting my tongue.No more.You Sir are a knob of the highest order and i would still rather sit/stand next to a plastc seat than next to you.

Firstly don't tell ME what i think,you haven't got a clue and secondly don't say,''The likes of you'' as if i am some sort of fucking piece of shit you found under your shoe you patronising knob!

I see nothing of myself in any City player,i was never good enough to even be a Paul Dickov,the worst player to pull on a City shirt in your opinion,if i had been i would have a more comfortable lifestyle than i have now.I never said if we had 11 players of Dickov's work rate we would we'd have been better.I said the greatest teams and players add workrate to their ability.Some of the best players in the world also chase waste paper too as they recognise you need hard work as well as ability.You have also mxed up the analogy between work rate and ability.

Annelka never endeared himself to the fans because he was a miserable sod who we knew was looking for a way out as soon as he could.Robinho similar,add a mardarse to the equation.All the ability in the world but if you sulk,hide and don't apply it you are a waste of a shirt,as he often was,especially away from home.

Ian Bishop is also a City legend in my eyes,though this thread is about Paul Dickov,not players who are considered City legends.

Would i rather be watching the 1999 team as opposed to todays team?No!Anyone who says yes would be a fool.That doesn't detract from what Paul Dickov gave for this club in those years,in spite of his limited talent.

The likes of you need to calm down. Paul Dickov gave us 2 relegations, one of them down to the third tier of English football. Helping to get us back up is the least he could do! Far from a "legend" in my eyes.

Again,stop being patronising,for your information referring to someone as ''The likes of you'' is extremely patronising.That is par for the course from what i have read so far though.He also gave us 2 promotions,or have you forgotten that?

You are a wind up merchant and a knob.If you are a City fan,of which i have my doubts,i wish you weren't and i say that and mean every word.Calm down??Again don't think for me or tell me what to do,trust me i am calm.Angry would be a totally different kettle of fish.

I have said all i am going to say on this subject as i am now going over old ground.Once again i sometimes wonder at the mentality of some so called City fans,but i have my doubts you are or were ever at Wembley in 1999.Anyone who was would always have a special place in their hearts for Paul Dickov,who in spite of his obvious limitations as a footballer sweated blood for the club i love and that will do for me!

 

[Shaelumstash]

Mate you can take this any way you want but i wish fans with your attitude and spirit would go and never return.I would rather sit or stand next to an empty space than next to someone like you and i don't care if you were at York away or delivered Colin Bell's newspaper,i wish our club had less of you.

Well I admire your honesty, and of course you are entitled to your point of view. For the record, I don't wish you didn't go, the more City fans the better.

I do however, think fans like you who value "dying for the shirt" "chasing waste paper" and "tracking back" as more important than abilty, intelligence, and technique, held the club back for years and contributed to us being so bad for so long.

Thankfully the attitude of the average fan is changing, and people are starting to appreciate the talents of a David Silva or Sergio Aguero, more than the work rate and bluster of a Paul Dickov or James Milner. Long may it continue, we'll be a more successful side for it.

'I do however, think fans like you who value "dying for the shirt" "chasing waste paper" and "tracking back" as more important than abilty, intelligence, and technique, held the club back for years and contributed to us being so bad for so long.'

- Bollocks, fans appreciated this at the time because it was the only type of player we were able to afford so it was at least better to get this type of player than an equally crap player without these attributes.We would have all loved David Silva against Macclesfield etc. but it wasn't to be.

To dismiss the players from our days in the third division is wrong. They weren't the best players in the world (or they wouldn't have been playing for us at the time) but they were exactly what we needed at the time. Had they not done their job and eventually gained us promotion we would most probably still be floundering around the lower leagues. To dismiss their status in the clubs recent history is ignorant to say the least. Equally you don't necessarily need to be the best player in the world to be considered of great significance to club.

You can debate all day the definition of legend, but lets not play down the significance of these players. A player can be a legend at a club because of one significant moment in time

You are suggesting I do not recognise the significance of those players helping us to gain promotion from the third tier of English football.

2 things.

1- the vast majority of those players (Dickov included) were the same players who got us relegated in the first place. You are not recognising the significance of that.

2- City are the 7th most successful club in English football history. We are one of the top 5 or 6 supported teams in the country, and have been for years. In our 120 year history we have spent (i'm estimating) 105 years in the top flight, 14 in the second division, and one in the third. To suggest players from the one season in the third tier are "club legends" is disrespectful to the club and the great players of our past.

 

[paulchapo]

I am past caring what you think or believe,we will never agree on anything,that is for sure.What is more i don't give a flying.

For me and thousands of City fans Paul Dickov will always have a place in our hearts for the effort he gave when playing for our club and THAT goal,without which you wouldn't be watching your more technically gifted players today Mr souless.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I am past caring what you think or believe,we will never agree on anything,that is for sure.What is more i don't give a flying.

For me and thousands of City fans Paul Dickov will always have a place in our hearts for the effort he gave when playing for our club and THAT goal,without which you wouldn't be watching your more technically gifted players today Mr souless.

To paraphrase Alan Hansen, you never win anything with talentless grafters.

 

[Cellarite]

You are suggesting I do not recognise the significance of those players helping us to gain promotion from the third tier of English football.

2 things.

1- the vast majority of those players (Dickov included) were the same players who got us relegated in the first place. You are not recognising the significance of that.

2- City are the 7th most successful club in English football history. We are one of the top 5 or 6 supported teams in the country, and have been for years. In our 120 year history we have spent (i'm estimating) 105 years in the top flight, 14 in the second division, and one in the third. To suggest players from the one season in the third tier are "club legends" is disrespectful to the club and the great players of our past.

I'd say that the chaos around the club at the time, 5 managers in a season, players coming in and out like the main entrance at Maine Road was a revolving door, no money, constant pannings from the press were to blame. The players that went down could hardly have known each other.

The fact is. they dug in, worked together and got us out of it. Goater for me is the perfect example. He was the scapegoat (pardon the pun) in his early days but knuckled down, watched what Dickov did and copied it. It was the copying of the effort of Dickov that turned Shaun Goater into a City legend.

Nicky Weaver was never as good as Joe Hart is or Shay Given but is he not good enough for you to appreciate?

 

[nwhn3]

You are suggesting I do not recognise the significance of those players helping us to gain promotion from the third tier of English football.

2 things.

1- the vast majority of those players (Dickov included) were the same players who got us relegated in the first place. You are not recognising the significance of that.

2- City are the 7th most successful club in English football history. We are one of the top 5 or 6 supported teams in the country, and have been for years. In our 120 year history we have spent (i'm estimating) 105 years in the top flight, 14 in the second division, and one in the third. To suggest players from the one season in the third tier are "club legends" is disrespectful to the club and the great players of our past.

I fully accept that a number of these players were equally part of the team that got relegated, because they were not very good. I'm not disputing the quality of player. It would also only be disrespectful to the 'successful' players if we weren't acknowledging that these are legends. I just think that the position we found ourselves in,had we not got out of it that season we could have spent a great deal longer in the third division than one season and I greatly doubt we would now be watching Silva, Sergio, etc. for that I am eternally grateful. People will have differing opinions on whether only successful players / teams be remembered as legends but the significance of that moment in time could be deemed the catalyst for our new resurgence. Also lets not forget that a number of these players also helped gain us promotion to the 1st division.

 

[Shaelumstash]

You are suggesting I do not recognise the significance of those players helping us to gain promotion from the third tier of English football.

2 things.

1- the vast majority of those players (Dickov included) were the same players who got us relegated in the first place. You are not recognising the significance of that.

2- City are the 7th most successful club in English football history. We are one of the top 5 or 6 supported teams in the country, and have been for years. In our 120 year history we have spent (i'm estimating) 105 years in the top flight, 14 in the second division, and one in the third. To suggest players from the one season in the third tier are "club legends" is disrespectful to the club and the great players of our past.

I'd say that the chaos around the club at the time, 5 managers in a season, players coming in and out like the main entrance at Maine Road was a revolving door, no money, constant pannings from the press were to blame. The players that went down could hardly have known each other.

The fact is. they dug in, worked together and got us out of it. Goater for me is the perfect example. He was the scapegoat (pardon the pun) in his early days but knuckled down, watched what Dickov did and copied it. It was the copying of the effort of Dickov that turned Shaun Goater into a City legend.

Nicky Weaver was never as good as Joe Hart is or Shay Given but is he not good enough for you to appreciate?

I disagree. It was Goater's uncanny ability to score bucketloads of goals that made me love him. He was an awkward player, and sometimes looked ridiculous, but was decent for us at the time.

Dickov held us back and made us a worse team in my opinion. Weaver again was decent at the time, promising young keeper that never fulfilled his potential, but still a far better player than Dicky. Same with Bishop, Horlock, Cook, they are the core of what was good about City in them days. Decent footballers. Paul Dickov blagged a career in football.

 

[Shaelumstash]

You are suggesting I do not recognise the significance of those players helping us to gain promotion from the third tier of English football.

2 things.

1- the vast majority of those players (Dickov included) were the same players who got us relegated in the first place. You are not recognising the significance of that.

2- City are the 7th most successful club in English football history. We are one of the top 5 or 6 supported teams in the country, and have been for years. In our 120 year history we have spent (i'm estimating) 105 years in the top flight, 14 in the second division, and one in the third. To suggest players from the one season in the third tier are "club legends" is disrespectful to the club and the great players of our past.

I fully accept that a number of these players were equally part of the team that got relegated, because they were not very good. I'm not disputing the quality of player. It would also only be disrespectful to the 'successful' players if we weren't acknowledging that these are legends. I just think that the position we found ourselves in,had we not got out of it that season we could have spent a great deal longer in the third division than one season and I greatly doubt we would now be watching Silva, Sergio, etc. for that I am eternally grateful. People will have differing opinions on whether only successful players / teams be remembered as legends but the significance of that moment in time could be deemed the catalyst for our new resurgence. Also lets not forget that a number of these players also helped gain us promotion to the 1st division.

A fair, balanced post. We MAY not have got promoted the season after, we MAY not be seeing the great players of today without that Dickov goal. And you're quite right, the majority of that squad won promotion again. No problem with any of those points.

That doesn't qualify them as City legends in my eyes though. That is down to the individual opinion. Maybe I have a higher opinion of City than you and think our history deserves better.

 

[Vienna_70]

Well I admire your honesty, and of course you are entitled to your point of view. For the record, I don't wish you didn't go, the more City fans the better.

I do however, think fans like you who value "dying for the shirt" "chasing waste paper" and "tracking back" as more important than abilty, intelligence, and technique, held the club back for years and contributed to us being so bad for so long.

Thankfully the attitude of the average fan is changing, and people are starting to appreciate the talents of a David Silva or Sergio Aguero, more than the work rate and bluster of a Paul Dickov or James Milner. Long may it continue, we'll be a more successful side for it.

good point m8 you get the same in many other jobs looking busy but producing nothing civil service types and chief constables have made an art of it

out of curiosity what paper does Colin Bell take?

Thanks for having a bit of an objective opinion mate, makes a change on here!

The King reads The Guardian and The Telegraph, adds the news together, divides it by 2, and ends up with the truth. That's why he's the King!

No, Colin Bell is The King because of his ability on the football, not which newspaper(s) he reads.

Paul Dickov will always have a special place in my heart and memories, too. Not because he was a footballer of great technical ability or skill, but because he gave his all for Manchester City EVERY time he stepped over that white line and because he was a member of the squads that won back-to-back promotions and because of the goal he scored on 30/5/99. And yes, I was there to witness it.

As others have said, we would have loved to have had players of the level of Silva, Agüero and YaYa playing for us in the late '90s, but we couldn't afford such fantastic talents. Instead we had to make do with what we could afford, and players such as Dickov, Goater and Morrison were all in the latter category .

Without these players - and the rest of those around at that time - we wouldn't be Champions now.