Peace and justice project

[Rascal]

I think a lot, if not all of the jewish population would strongly disagree with you there.

Yet the ECHR did not accuse him of antisemitism.

15 Reasons the EHRC Report can and should be challenged | Jewish Voice for Labour

Jewish Voice for Labour says different.

 

[blue is best]

Yet the ECHR did not accuse him of antisemitism.

15 Reasons the EHRC Report can and should be challenged | Jewish Voice for Labour

Jewish Voice for Labour says different.

Your attempted link doesn’t load, I did not say definitively all the Jewish population, if you read just the executive summary of the report alone, it is very damning of the party, of which he was presiding over at the time, but you carry on with your blinkered view of him.

 

[Postman Pep]

This is straight from the report on the leadership of the party.

Considering the disgusting accusations you make about anyone that disagrees with you, you should show some shame for once yourself.

The report wasn't on the leadership it was on the whole of the party and fails to frame it's findings against the factional divisions within. For example it notes the improvements made post 2018 but doesn't highlight that they coincided with the switch from anti-Corbyn McNichol to ally Formby.
When the complaints procedure was it's most dysfunctional the party machinery was in the hands of those hostile to the leadership. The leaked internal report revealed how the Livingstone case was subject to delay to discredit Corbyn. How many more?
The charge against the leader personally intervening is laughable when you consider it was for attempting to speed up the disciplinary process in some naive belief that he could appease his enemies. If direct intervention from the leader is forbidden, well meaning or not, shouldn't Starmer be in the dock?

 

[Rascal]

Your attempted link doesn’t load, I did not say definitively all the Jewish population, if you read just the executive summary of the report alone, it is very damning of the party, of which he was presiding over at the time, but you carry on with your blinkered view of him.

Smoke Without Fire: The Myth of a ‘Labour Antisemitism Crisis’ | Jewish Voice for Labour

Here is another link from JVL

The first link works perfectly well for me. Perhaps you need to take your blinkers off

 

[Rascal]

15 Reasons the EHRC Report can and should be challenged​

Starmer is trying to insist that we must all accept the EHRC Report in full and without question. No report is beyond question and this one demands it more than most.

These are just some of the main points that demand interrogation.

1. There is no finding of institutional antisemitism in the Report nor does it provide any evidence of widespread antisemitism.
2. At no stage does the report try to describe, how and when any Jewish member of the Party had suffered discrimination or disadvantage on account of being Jewish.
3. Corbyn and Formby tried to fix a broken disciplinary system they inherited from McNicol and are given no credit for that.
4. The EHRC say they read the leaked GLU report but they never asked for the emails and posts the report depended on or commented on the factionalism and sabotage it revealed. They quoted it where it helped their argument but not where it contradicted it.
5. McNicol is given a free pass and all blame is laid at Corbyn’s door even though only two actions by Corbyn by name are cited in the report and one of those was his commitment to ending antisemitism in the Party (Report p.6).
6. Those complained about suffered more from the poor practices than did the complainants.
7. The Report is about a political party but totally fails to be interested in how this affected how anyone operated and ignored both factionalism and personal careerism as drivers of actions.
8. Much is made of the three unlawful acts but each finding of unlawful activity is dubious
   • It is stretching credibility to interpret the actions of Livingstone and Bromley as acts the Party was responsible for – irrespective of whether you believe them to be antisemitic
   • Interference with the disciplinary process may be poor practice but it is only unlawful if it is detrimental to people with a ‘protected characteristic – the report does not even attempt to establish that
   • There was more training about antisemitism, not less, than any other area of harassment – except sexual harassment and the Report mis-characterises that: that training was about case management not about the nature of sexual harassment.
9. The Report confuses education about antisemitism and training about how to handle disciplinary cases. It dismisses the programme offered by the highly regarded Pears Institute on Antisemitism on the basis of one comment by one participant (report p.92) and is contradictory about whether the Party should be delivering Education or Training.
10. The report makes no attempt to estimate the numerical size of Labour’s antisemitism problem nor whether it had been accurately reported. It only refers to a sample of cases without describing how they had been selected or whether they were representative. Therefore, discussion of the scale of the problem and whether it had been exaggerated in no way contradicts the report nor is it proscribed by the report. The EHRC makes this clear with its reference to Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
11. The Report rests upon a notion of ‘The Jewish Community’ that is homogeneous and is alleged to take offence in a uniform manner. Despite its talk about consulting Jewish stakeholders, Jews who think differently are disregarded.
12. The Report is elusive about the evidence it used to produce such damning conclusions.
13. The Report grew out of an exclusive campaign about antisemitism in the Labour Party. The campaign and the Report were indifferent to any problems that Black people, people of Asian origin or any other non-Jewish groupface. The campaign was also indifferent to antisemitism in other political parties.
    • There are no comparisons with how other forms of racism were dealt with; this should have been of equal concern. The Report’s Terms of Reference embraced all forms of racism (Report p. 123).
    • There are no comparisons with how other parties deal with antisemitism; without this there is no context.
14. The unacknowledged context of the Report is deep conflict within the Party to the situation in Palestine/Israel. The whole campaign gagged Palestinian members of the Labour Party from speaking about their own experiences. The Report compounds this silencing.
15. The over-concentration of the media on alleged Labour Antisemitism at the expense of concern about antisemitism elsewhere or discrimination against other groups produced a distorting environment for the Report; the Report neither acknowledged nor compensated for this.

 

[Ban-jani]

The report wasn't on the leadership it was on the whole of the party and fails to frame it's findings against the factional divisions within. For example it notes the improvements made post 2018 but doesn't highlight that they coincided with the switch from anti-Corbyn McNichol to ally Formby.
When the complaints procedure was it's most dysfunctional the party machinery was in the hands of those hostile to the leadership. The leaked internal report revealed how the Livingstone case was subject to delay to discredit Corbyn. How many more?
The charge against the leader personally intervening is laughable when you consider it was for attempting to speed up the disciplinary process in some naive belief that he could appease his enemies. If direct intervention from the leader is forbidden, well meaning or not, shouldn't Starmer be in the dock?

I have already made my feelings clear on Starmer somehow being allowed to act like he wasn’t in the shadow cabinet during the mess but one would have to agree that as leader he’s very much done the correct things, moved those responsible away and, in a matter of months I think it’s fair to say confidence has been at least somewhat restored.

Regarding leadership, this is the specifics from the report. Peace and justice? Don’t make me laugh:

10. A failure of leadership
We have identified serious failings in leadership during the period the investigation looked at, and an inadequate process for handling antisemitism complaints across the Labour Party.
While there have been some improvements in how the Labour Party deals with antisemitism complaints,25 our analysis points to a culture within the Party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent antisemitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it.
In earlier chapters, we identify relevant recommendations from previous reports which the Labour Party has not implemented adequately. This includes:
• a failure to publish a comprehensive antisemitism complaints procedure
• a failure to provide adequate training for staff and members involved in the
investigation and disciplinary process, and
• inadequate resourcing of antisemitism complaint handling, at least until
2018.
These are set out in more detail in Annex 4.
Our analysis also uncovered serious failings in complaint handling. We found that the Labour Party’s response to antisemitism complaints has been inconsistent, poor and not transparent, in terms of the process used, reasons for decisions, record-keeping, delay and failures to communicate with complainants. Some complaints were unjustifiably not investigated at all.

To be very clear, it states that at best, the leadership didn’t do enough to prevent antisemitism, at worst, they actually accepted it.

I know we have a very partisan poster in this thread, I am not referring to you here, claiming that either you’re with this campaign or you’re not for peace and justice, I am saying that I am not for this campaign and Jeremy Corbyn precisely because I am for peace and justice. Because they’ve called themselves that, doesn’t mean they are.

 

[blue is best]

Smoke Without Fire: The Myth of a ‘Labour Antisemitism Crisis’ | Jewish Voice for Labour

Here is another link from JVL

The first link works perfectly well for me. Perhaps you need to take your blinkers off

So you think he comes out of it smelling of roses, I don’t, but if you want to carry on defending him so be it, but I don’t bother defending him to me because I won’t be replying as I don’t think we should be hijacking or clogging up this thread with this, however if you’re one of those insecure people who have to have the last word then feel free.

 

[M18CTID]

I have already made my feelings clear on Starmer somehow being allowed to act like he wasn’t in the shadow cabinet during the mess but one would have to agree that as leader he’s very much done the correct things, moved those responsible away and, in a matter of months I think it’s fair to say confidence has been at least somewhat restored.

Regarding leadership, this is the specifics from the report. Peace and justice? Don’t make me laugh:


To be very clear, it states that at best, the leadership didn’t do enough to prevent antisemitism, at worst, they actually accepted it.

I know we have a very partisan poster in this thread, I am not referring to you here, claiming that either you’re with this campaign or you’re not for peace and justice, I am saying that I am not for this campaign and Jeremy Corbyn precisely because I am for peace and justice. Because they’ve called themselves that, doesn’t mean they are.

Yep. Just an educated guess - I’d say the default position of most people on the planet (regardless of where they stand on the political spectrum) is for peace and justice but we don’t need to sign up to Jeremy Corbyn’s new project to prove we’re that way inclined, just like no-one should have to proclaim “I’m anti-facist!” on their Facebook profile to prove they’re anti-facist when that’s the default position of the majority anyway.

 

[Rascal]

So you think he comes out of it smelling of roses, I don’t, but if you want to carry on defending him so be it, but I don’t bother defending him to me because I won’t be replying as I don’t think we should be hijacking or clogging up this thread with this, however if you’re one of those insecure people who have to have the last word then feel free.

Now if i have the last word i am insecure, that is clever. I will write that down, i like it.

I will defend anybody accused of something I do not believe they are guilty of and I don't care who it is and what they are being accused of.

He came out of it very badly as did the Labour party and as a result of the systematic attacks by the RW media and people inside the party like Hodge we are now lumbered with the worst government in living memory.

This thread was always going to be hijacked by the capitalist sheep, they are brainwashed into a macarthyite existence.

 

[urban genie]

So links to progressive international, and yanis varoufakis is i e of those involved.

I quite like listening to him at times, would like to see wh else is on board, but looking at the video their is a range from international bodies.