Pep's contract situation

[jimharri]

Luis Enrique - if ever there was a myth this guy is it. Won nothing as a manager and there is a trend of leaving clubs well before the end of his contract when things don‘t go right. I’d rather have Potter than him!

 

[Nelinho]

This is simply not true, in my opinion.

He did shite at Tottenham.

Given the resources he had at his disposal, and the perfect alignment of opportunity that conspired to essentially deliver him a free pass at the League in 15/16 - his performance can’t be viewed as anything other than a dismal failure.

Look at this team:

Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Alli, Eriksen, Lamela, Son, Kane

That was a fucking fantastic side he had back then, whichever way you look at it!

That season, we were shite and scraped 4th as we knew Pellegrini was a dead man walking, Liverpool were still fucking useless and finished 8th having started the season with Rodgers as their manager, the Rags were shite and finished 5th, Chelsea (who had won the League the season before and would win it the following year) had a complete meltdown and finished 10th.

Never would the stars align so favourably for Spurs again.

That was their golden opportunity, and he fucked it - with that side listed above - handing the League to Leicester in the process.

That really should have been Spurs’ turn to finally win the thing once and for all, and in my view is as bad as not winning a one horse League with PSG.

He didn’t even manage to win one of the Cups to at least have something to show for it.

The guy is a complete myth, and I’d be absolutely astonished if we’d go anywhere near him to replace Pep.

This could very easily serve as a reply to the poster originally suggesting his name. I chose your post for the arguments you make.

Starting from your conclusion: It's unfair, to say the least. Pochetino is not a myth. He's a good manager. Something I feel you acknowledge in your latest posts. But the idea of him considered as the man to replace Guardiola frightens you, I think. I completely understand...

Under particular circumstances, he could perhaps perform at a higher level. He will never be exceptional, I think. I also think that he himself knows that. Same way people like Mourinho, for example, are aware of their limitations. But their ego won't allow them to admit it. In fact, Mourinho's intelligence (I'm talking about his prime) is pretty much defined by adopting (meaning, designing and implementing) strategies so as to beat better, more skillful managers than him...

Having followed his career from the beginning, without hesitation I will say that his work at Espanyol is, to this day, the most appealing to my eyes. Extremely limited resources, still he shaped a style, gave them an identity. If I ever saw him face to face, I would tell him exactly that. And I would expect him to get emotional -I think he would get my point...

You see, in England (leaving aside the Saints tenure) Pochetino changed. Guardiola has made flattering remarks about Spurs' positional play under him. I understand what he means. Yet there is something cynical, even impersonal, about his work at Tottenham. No idea if his work there defines any style at all...

Nevertheless the truth is that he did develop players. And he did built a team. Having to deal with financial constraints, serious mentality issues, and so on. The output of his work at Spurs should not be taken lightly. For proof, take a look at the people who took over following his departure. Gradually everything he'd built, his whole legacy, were destroyed -with Mourinho putting the final nail in the coffin. Conte will have to start all over again (well almost)...

The question whether Spurs have reached their ceiling under his command will always have substance. It's in my mind for years, before he even left. Without underestimating his work, like you I tend to believe they haven't. With a more skillful manager perhaps they could have achieved better things. But this is a very demanding discussion: Decision makers, fans and journalists watch a team reaching a certain level -and they applaud. But can they visualize this particular group of players adding more / different methods in the way they attack? More / different approaches? More patterns? More rhythms? Can they imagine them responding better than they currently do to a variety of situations? And so on. Stuff correlated with the manager's work. Very few people in the industry have this ability, it's a rare commodity. Fact. Therefore they are not able to evaluate a manager's performance which, in turn, reflects on their -often instinctive- decisions...

As I said, it's a complicated discussion, I'm not going to continue on this, it would be way off topic anyway. To his defense, one could perhaps make a case in terms of squad depth during his time there. But I will add that they definitely needed improvement in terms of ambition, consistency and character. Stuff also associated with his work. But that's just me talking. If you ask him, he will express his satisfaction. He will say that top 4 is (was) good (and Levy would agree). He will say that Spurs would need an updated strategy so as to achieve more (I guess we all understand what that refers to, right?). All the above refer to statements Poch has made publicly. But he will not say that he felt uncomfortable in the idea of further pushing his players. And he will definitely never admit what I firmly believe: that Mauricio is a little bit afraid of heights, if you understand what I mean...

Which means, you do have a case regarding the 2015-16 season, I agree. And needless to say, the less said about his PSG tenure the better. Losing the title from Lille is so embarrassing, personally it would make me consider quitting coaching for good. Their CL campaigns? Their billionaires should feel embarrassed. After all the money they've spent, watching their team perform so poorly. A team with world class players and an unbelievable depth, lacking ideas on the pitch, personality, mental strength. Lacking identity...

He has left no mark at PSG. None whatsoever. Nothing he will be remembered for (nothing positive I mean) when their fans reflect on his tenure. A poster earlier questioned whether he enjoyed any kind of power / control or not. I honestly do not give a fuck. Grown men live and die by the choices they make. If that is the case, he always had the option to resign. He didn't. Stayed and took the money instead. Stayed till the end, even though he -and the whole world- knew that he was unwanted. Of course, not the first out there to go for money over dignity or reputation -certainly won't be the last...

I'll leave it there. And I will forget about that ridiculous "misunderstanding" regarding that Pep's quote ("the Harry Kane team "). In terms of being respectful towards his colleagues, Guardiola is the benchmark -never seen anything like this before. Yet Pochetino made such a fucking big deal about it. It was BS -and he knew what he was doing, if you ask me. But I've been idiotically generous with people all my life, too late to change I guess, so fuck it. Let's say we've seen much much worse behaviors...

Bottom line is that in terms of talent (a term I use in reference to a broad set of skills) Pochetino is nowhere near close to Guardiola. I repeat, nowhere near close to the man. And again, I think he is aware of this unpleasant reality. End of story...

Bottom line is also that I fucking hate this discussion. Eventually you end up reading ridiculous names -and then you want to commit suicide...

Which leads me to the final comment: Regarding our transfer strategy, I've made my views clear a couple of weeks ago, providing arguments for absolutely minimum requirements. I repeat, absolutely minimum needs. I feel our situation is so obvious, any debate on this would be ridiculous. Kept silent since then. And I will keep hoping till the last moment of the transfer window. Also hoping and praying that developments (or should I say, non-developments) in that area will have no negative influence on the matter we are discussing. Before I even start talking about what he would like to see happening (but not willing to ever discuss it publicly), mostly I'm focusing on possible consequences following poor / bad decision making. As I said in that post, the application of a risk assessment procedure would be more than enough. But we already have history behind us. Lessons to be learnt. We have experienced worst case scenarios following bad decisions -and paid the price. We have experienced a knackered team struggling out there. A team stretched beyond its limits. Finally saving the day due to two reasons, and two reasons alone: One, the quality of the manager's work is out of this world -he's the best in the history of the sport. And two, the work ethic, commitment and effort of our boys are stuff never witnessed before...

Once again, I will keep hoping for pleasant surprises. We will talk again. But if the direction towards which we're seemingly moving is confirmed by September 1, then we are taking a big big BIG fucking risk. And there is absolutely no logic behind it. None whatsoever...

Other than this, there is really no question, is there? Next manager after Pep? PEP. This is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity -and I truly feel sad for those failing to realize it. There are people being paid high wages for solving problems, handling situations, making decisions that will benefit the club and protect its interests. I don't give a fuck what it will take. Just get it done...

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

This could very easily serve as a reply to the poster originally suggesting his name. I chose your post for the arguments you make.

Starting from your conclusion: It's unfair, to say the least. Pochetino is not a myth. He's a good manager. Something I feel you acknowledge in your latest posts. But the idea of him considered as the man to replace Guardiola frightens you, I think. I completely understand...

Under particular circumstances, he could perhaps perform at a higher level. He will never be exceptional, I think. I also think that he himself knows that. Same way people like Mourinho, for example, are aware of their limitations. But their ego won't allow them to admit it. In fact, Mourinho's intelligence (I'm talking about his prime) is pretty much defined by adopting (meaning, designing and implementing) strategies so as to beat better, more skillful managers than him...

Having followed his career from the beginning, without hesitation I will say that his work at Espanyol is, to this day, the most appealing to my eyes. Extremely limited resources, still he shaped a style, gave them an identity. If I ever saw him face to face, I would tell him exactly that. And I would expect him to get emotional -I think he would get my point...

You see, in England (leaving aside the Saints tenure) Pochetino changed. Guardiola has made flattering remarks about Spurs' positional play under him. I understand what he means. Yet there is something cynical, even impersonal, about his work at Tottenham. No idea if his work there defines any style at all...

Nevertheless the truth is that he did develop players. And he did built a team. Having to deal with financial constraints, serious mentality issues, and so on. The output of his work at Spurs should not be taken lightly. For proof, take a look at the people who took over following his departure. Gradually everything he'd built, his whole legacy, were destroyed -with Mourinho putting the final nail in the coffin. Conte will have to start all over again (well almost)...

The question whether Spurs have reached their ceiling under his command will always have substance. It's in my mind for years, before he even left. Without underestimating his work, like you I tend to believe they haven't. With a more skillful manager perhaps they could have achieved better things. But this is a very demanding discussion: Decision makers, fans and journalists watch a team reaching a certain level -and they applaud. But can they visualize this particular group of players adding more / different methods in the way they attack? More / different approaches? More patterns? More rhythms? Can they imagine them responding better than they currently do to a variety of situations? And so on. Stuff correlated with the manager's work. Very few people in the industry have this ability, it's a rare commodity. Fact. Therefore they are not able to evaluate a manager's performance which, in turn, reflects on their -often instinctive- decisions...

As I said, it's a complicated discussion, I'm not going to continue on this, it would be way off topic anyway. To his defense, one could perhaps make a case in terms of squad depth during his time there. But I will add that they definitely needed improvement in terms of ambition, consistency and character. Stuff also associated with his work. But that's just me talking. If you ask him, he will express his satisfaction. He will say that top 4 is (was) good (and Levy would agree). He will say that Spurs would need an updated strategy so as to achieve more (I guess we all understand what that refers to, right?). All the above refer to statements Poch has made publicly. But he will not say that he felt uncomfortable in the idea of further pushing his players. And he will definitely never admit what I firmly believe: that Mauricio is a little bit afraid of heights, if you understand what I mean...

Which means, you do have a case regarding the 2015-16 season, I agree. And needless to say, the less said about his PSG tenure the better. Losing the title from Lille is so embarrassing, personally it would make me consider quitting coaching for good. Their CL campaigns? Their billionaires should feel embarrassed. After all the money they've spent, watching their team perform so poorly. A team with world class players and an unbelievable depth, lacking ideas on the pitch, personality, mental strength. Lacking identity...

He has left no mark at PSG. None whatsoever. Nothing he will be remembered for (nothing positive I mean) when their fans reflect on his tenure. A poster earlier questioned whether he enjoyed any kind of power / control or not. I honestly do not give a fuck. Grown men live and die by the choices they make. If that is the case, he always had the option to resign. He didn't. Stayed and took the money instead. Stayed till the end, even though he -and the whole world- knew that he was unwanted. Of course, not the first out there to go for money over dignity or reputation -certainly won't be the last...

I'll leave it there. And I will forget about that ridiculous "misunderstanding" regarding that Pep's quote ("the Harry Kane team "). In terms of being respectful towards his colleagues, Guardiola is the benchmark -never seen anything like this before. Yet Pochetino made such a fucking big deal about it. It was BS -and he knew what he was doing, if you ask me. But I've been idiotically generous with people all my life, too late to change I guess, so fuck it. Let's say we've seen much much worse behaviors...

Bottom line is that in terms of talent (a term I use in reference to a broad set of skills) Pochetino is nowhere near close to Guardiola. I repeat, nowhere near close to the man. And again, I think he is aware of this unpleasant reality. End of story...

Bottom line is also that I fucking hate this discussion. Eventually you end up reading ridiculous names -and then you want to commit suicide...

Which leads me to the final comment: Regarding our transfer strategy, I've made my views clear a couple of weeks ago, providing arguments for absolutely minimum requirements. I repeat, absolutely minimum needs. I feel our situation is so obvious, any debate on this would be ridiculous. Kept silent since then. And I will keep hoping till the last moment of the transfer window. Also hoping and praying that developments (or should I say, non-developments) in that area will have no negative influence on the matter we are discussing. Before I even start talking about what he would like to see happening (but not willing to ever discuss it publicly), mostly I'm focusing on possible consequences following poor / bad decision making. As I said in that post, the application of a risk assessment procedure would be more than enough. But we already have history behind us. Lessons to be learnt. We have experienced worst case scenarios following bad decisions -and paid the price. We have experienced a knackered team struggling out there. A team stretched beyond its limits. Finally saving the day due to two reasons, and two reasons alone: One, the quality of the manager's work is out of this world -he's the best in the history of the sport. And two, the work ethic, commitment and effort of our boys are stuff never witnessed before...

Once again, I will keep hoping for pleasant surprises. We will talk again. But if the direction towards which we're seemingly moving is confirmed by September 1, then we are taking a big big BIG fucking risk. And there is absolutely no logic behind it. None whatsoever...

Other than this, there is really no question, is there? Next manager after Pep? PEP. This is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity -and I truly feel sad for those failing to realize it. There are people being paid high wages for solving problems, handling situations, making decisions that will benefit the club and protect its interests. I don't give a fuck what it will take. Just get it done...

There’s a lot in there mate, and I’m definitely not proposing to respond to all of it.

But if I’ve given the impression of softening my position on Pochettino in subsequent posts, that definitely wasn’t intentional.

I still think the guy is a complete myth.

Now I should qualify that to avoid ambiguity.

Clearly Pochettino himself is not a myth. He does exist. I’ve seen him with my own eyes.

He’s also not a myth as a football manager. It’s indisputable that he’s managed some teams. Four of them, in fact.

Him being a singularly average manager is not a myth either. Actually - that’s a touch harsh. He’s a ‘decent’ manager. You could even go as far as calling him ‘good’ if that floats your boat.

But he’s simply not an elite manager who warrants being in the conversation when the very top, most ambitious clubs are looking for their leader.

He’ll get your club doing well. They’ll be organised, and they’ll work hard. But does he have that magic about him that can turn a game - the spark of tactical innovation that keeps the rest in his wake?

Do you notice his hand in the game - his influence changing the shape of a game and securing a win for his team when it looked like it just wasn’t going to happen?

No chance.

Spurs are seeing now what an elite manager looks like in Conte, and their owner is doing everything he can to hang onto him.

Pochettino is a Leicester or a Villa or an Everton level manager. Which is not to be dismissed in any way. Those are great Clubs with strong, loyal fanbases and rich stories, who attract good managers and players.

Yet somehow he’s got himself in on the conversations when the very top clubs are making a change.

And that’s the level at which he’s a myth, in my opinion.

 

[Franny 1234]

This could very easily serve as a reply to the poster originally suggesting his name. I chose your post for the arguments you make.

Starting from your conclusion: It's unfair, to say the least. Pochetino is not a myth. He's a good manager. Something I feel you acknowledge in your latest posts. But the idea of him considered as the man to replace Guardiola frightens you, I think. I completely understand...

Under particular circumstances, he could perhaps perform at a higher level. He will never be exceptional, I think. I also think that he himself knows that. Same way people like Mourinho, for example, are aware of their limitations. But their ego won't allow them to admit it. In fact, Mourinho's intelligence (I'm talking about his prime) is pretty much defined by adopting (meaning, designing and implementing) strategies so as to beat better, more skillful managers than him...

Having followed his career from the beginning, without hesitation I will say that his work at Espanyol is, to this day, the most appealing to my eyes. Extremely limited resources, still he shaped a style, gave them an identity. If I ever saw him face to face, I would tell him exactly that. And I would expect him to get emotional -I think he would get my point...

You see, in England (leaving aside the Saints tenure) Pochetino changed. Guardiola has made flattering remarks about Spurs' positional play under him. I understand what he means. Yet there is something cynical, even impersonal, about his work at Tottenham. No idea if his work there defines any style at all...

Nevertheless the truth is that he did develop players. And he did built a team. Having to deal with financial constraints, serious mentality issues, and so on. The output of his work at Spurs should not be taken lightly. For proof, take a look at the people who took over following his departure. Gradually everything he'd built, his whole legacy, were destroyed -with Mourinho putting the final nail in the coffin. Conte will have to start all over again (well almost)...

The question whether Spurs have reached their ceiling under his command will always have substance. It's in my mind for years, before he even left. Without underestimating his work, like you I tend to believe they haven't. With a more skillful manager perhaps they could have achieved better things. But this is a very demanding discussion: Decision makers, fans and journalists watch a team reaching a certain level -and they applaud. But can they visualize this particular group of players adding more / different methods in the way they attack? More / different approaches? More patterns? More rhythms? Can they imagine them responding better than they currently do to a variety of situations? And so on. Stuff correlated with the manager's work. Very few people in the industry have this ability, it's a rare commodity. Fact. Therefore they are not able to evaluate a manager's performance which, in turn, reflects on their -often instinctive- decisions...

As I said, it's a complicated discussion, I'm not going to continue on this, it would be way off topic anyway. To his defense, one could perhaps make a case in terms of squad depth during his time there. But I will add that they definitely needed improvement in terms of ambition, consistency and character. Stuff also associated with his work. But that's just me talking. If you ask him, he will express his satisfaction. He will say that top 4 is (was) good (and Levy would agree). He will say that Spurs would need an updated strategy so as to achieve more (I guess we all understand what that refers to, right?). All the above refer to statements Poch has made publicly. But he will not say that he felt uncomfortable in the idea of further pushing his players. And he will definitely never admit what I firmly believe: that Mauricio is a little bit afraid of heights, if you understand what I mean...

Which means, you do have a case regarding the 2015-16 season, I agree. And needless to say, the less said about his PSG tenure the better. Losing the title from Lille is so embarrassing, personally it would make me consider quitting coaching for good. Their CL campaigns? Their billionaires should feel embarrassed. After all the money they've spent, watching their team perform so poorly. A team with world class players and an unbelievable depth, lacking ideas on the pitch, personality, mental strength. Lacking identity...

He has left no mark at PSG. None whatsoever. Nothing he will be remembered for (nothing positive I mean) when their fans reflect on his tenure. A poster earlier questioned whether he enjoyed any kind of power / control or not. I honestly do not give a fuck. Grown men live and die by the choices they make. If that is the case, he always had the option to resign. He didn't. Stayed and took the money instead. Stayed till the end, even though he -and the whole world- knew that he was unwanted. Of course, not the first out there to go for money over dignity or reputation -certainly won't be the last...

I'll leave it there. And I will forget about that ridiculous "misunderstanding" regarding that Pep's quote ("the Harry Kane team "). In terms of being respectful towards his colleagues, Guardiola is the benchmark -never seen anything like this before. Yet Pochetino made such a fucking big deal about it. It was BS -and he knew what he was doing, if you ask me. But I've been idiotically generous with people all my life, too late to change I guess, so fuck it. Let's say we've seen much much worse behaviors...

Bottom line is that in terms of talent (a term I use in reference to a broad set of skills) Pochetino is nowhere near close to Guardiola. I repeat, nowhere near close to the man. And again, I think he is aware of this unpleasant reality. End of story...

Bottom line is also that I fucking hate this discussion. Eventually you end up reading ridiculous names -and then you want to commit suicide...

Which leads me to the final comment: Regarding our transfer strategy, I've made my views clear a couple of weeks ago, providing arguments for absolutely minimum requirements. I repeat, absolutely minimum needs. I feel our situation is so obvious, any debate on this would be ridiculous. Kept silent since then. And I will keep hoping till the last moment of the transfer window. Also hoping and praying that developments (or should I say, non-developments) in that area will have no negative influence on the matter we are discussing. Before I even start talking about what he would like to see happening (but not willing to ever discuss it publicly), mostly I'm focusing on possible consequences following poor / bad decision making. As I said in that post, the application of a risk assessment procedure would be more than enough. But we already have history behind us. Lessons to be learnt. We have experienced worst case scenarios following bad decisions -and paid the price. We have experienced a knackered team struggling out there. A team stretched beyond its limits. Finally saving the day due to two reasons, and two reasons alone: One, the quality of the manager's work is out of this world -he's the best in the history of the sport. And two, the work ethic, commitment and effort of our boys are stuff never witnessed before...

Once again, I will keep hoping for pleasant surprises. We will talk again. But if the direction towards which we're seemingly moving is confirmed by September 1, then we are taking a big big BIG fucking risk. And there is absolutely no logic behind it. None whatsoever...

Other than this, there is really no question, is there? Next manager after Pep? PEP. This is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity -and I truly feel sad for those failing to realize it. There are people being paid high wages for solving problems, handling situations, making decisions that will benefit the club and protect its interests. I don't give a fuck what it will take. Just get it done...

Glad you got that off your chest. LOL

 

[The_Maverick]

Some very questionable posts from this account of late

Seeing this I thought I’d check into their post history.

Imagine my (faux) surprise where every one of the 22 posts is basically slagging off the player. Even to the point he thought Vinnie was overrated and horrific in Europe.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

I always wonder why some people seem to think Graham Potter is this great manager and why they're so adamant that he can replace Pep.

Not saying he isn't great, I just genuinely don't know what people are basing it off.

 

[Regista21]

I always wonder why some people seem to think Graham Potter is this great manager and why they're so adamant that he can replace Pep.

Not saying he isn't great, I just genuinely don't know what people are basing it off.

Play a very organized positional football with very limited resources. Improve players. Overperform.
He never managed a top club, but so far he seems to have the credentials to do so.
I would choose him over Luis Enrique or Pochettino, but not Ten Hag or Nagelsmann.
We would be very lucky if Chelsea has a bad run, Tuchel end up sacked and - if Pep do leave - the german replaces him as our manager. I feel like Tuchel would be the perfect replacement, especially based on his run in Borussia Dortmund.

 

[Coatigan]

No matter who succeeds Pep, it will be the moment our golden years are over. We just need to try and keep the club stabilised and don’t panic too early when we don’t win silverware in a season. The exempels are numerous how we should NOT act. And a few how we should.

I disagree. Of course it won't be the centurions season, or the domestic quadruple, but it also shouldn't be a keeping the club stabilised. Pep himself hasn't been able to hit those incredible achievements again, because they are so incredible. When he leaves, I think we will continue to challenge and win one or two trophies a a season, which is what Pep has been doing too.


We have a fantastic squad. Built for both Pep and adter Pep. Arguably, with the players brought in, unused space in the squad, and plenty of money from sales alone to play with, I'd say it looks more for after Pep than with him, where a new.manager can come in and make a few additions of his own immediately without even touching the existing players. And if he commits, he can maybe use that in January himself.

Pep says the same things regularly, and they can be interpreted both ways. At times I think he is genuinely happy and wants to be here longer, but is being guarded and careful. Other times, I feel he is simply saying the right thing but either feels it is enough or just hasn't decided yet, and is leaving room either way. Regardless, the club I am sure will know already.

Think we will maintain our current success when he leaves though. Not peak Pep, granted, but still will be a big challenger and right up there with the best.

 

[Sir peace frog]

The team is ageing - he was never going to leave while there were trophies to be absorbed by the best squad any English club has ever assembled, hence him extending. He didn’t want anybody else to match or eclipse what he’s done with it.

Now United will be getting multibillionaire investment, the rest of the league can also buy very good players and maybe even the culmination and sanctions of the PL FFP investigation mean it’s a good time to walk away for him.

fucking hell, haha

 

[MafeotulBlue]

The team is ageing - he was never going to leave while there were trophies to be absorbed by the best squad any English club has ever assembled, hence him extending. He didn’t want anybody else to match or eclipse what he’s done with it.

Now United will be getting multibillionaire investment, the rest of the league can also buy very good players and maybe even the culmination and sanctions of the PL FFP investigation mean it’s a good time to walk away for him.

I Bet you're a fun person to be around at family dinners.