Peter Drury replaces Martin Tyler on Sky Sports

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Is there any point to the bickering about Hillsborough?

 

[Zabbasbeard]

Is there any point to the bickering about Hillsborough?

Yes. Justice has still not been served.

 

[hammocity]

There's no evidence that hooliganism, drink or ticketless fans played any part on the day itself. The blame for events on the day is almost wholly shared by South Yorkshire Police, the FA and Sheffield Wednesday. And people should have gone to jail over the disgraceful cover-up.

Because of the authorities' failings up to and on that day, 97 people died at Hillsborough. But their deaths happened because they were fenced in pens, and had nowhere to spread out to because they were artificially constrained. Had no pens or fences been in place, and the Leppings Lane terrace been completely open, those deaths almost certainly wouldn't have happened.

But those pens were there because of the general problem of hooliganism in football. They allowed the police to contain any outbreaks of trouble at grounds. I was in one at Old Trafford when a large scale disturbance broke out between City and united fans. The police closed it off and hauled out the fighting fans. In fact they hauled out so many, you could sit down on the floor at half time.

So while the deaths of football fans that day wasn't the direct result of hooliganism (unlike Heysel, although the authorities also share some blame as well for that) it was certainly an indirect result. No hooligans, no pens.

Just like Paris, if the Dippers hadn’t turned up without tickets it’s a different story. We all know the Emergency Services made mistakes, they’d not experienced anything like that before, they didn’t go to work that day with the intention of causing a major incident but the Dipper fans did go without tickets, intentionally. The ones who died that day were mainly young, innocent supporters with tickets who had got there early, I’ve not ever heard one Dipper admit they went without a ticket and added to the mayhem that day.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Yes. Justice has still not been served.

How’s your case proceeding?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Just like Paris, if the Dippers hadn’t turned up without tickets it’s a different story. We all know the Emergency Services made mistakes, they’d not experienced anything like that before, they didn’t go to work that day with the intention of causing a major incident but the Dipper fans did go without tickets, intentionally. The ones who died that day were mainly young, innocent supporters with tickets who had got there early, I’ve not ever heard one Dipper admit they went without a ticket and added to the mayhem that day.

There were probably people who travelled without tickets. People used to slip the turnstile operator a few quid and, on a terrace, a few extra wouldn't matter. But the evidence is clear that stories of a huge number of ticketless fans rushing the gates is a myth. People really need to stop coming out with this.

CCTV evidence can't detect whether people had tickets or not but the consensus was that the number of people in that Leppings Lane terrace was broadly consistent with the number of tickets sold. And even if 100 got i. without tickets, that wouldn't have made a difference had the plan been followed to close the central pens off when they were visibly full.

And even if large numbers had travelled without tickets, the previous operational plan, which Duckenfield completely ignored, called for ticket checks at points along Leppings Lane to ensure only fans with tickets got to the gates. Had he followed his predecessor's well-established plan, no ticketless fans could have got through.

 

[Sir peace frog]

I lived in Sheffield for many years after going to uni there and still work there. I've lost count of the number of accounts of absolutely appalling behaviour of Liverpool fans that day. One I heard at our daughter's football last season - a bus driver's accounts of Liverpool fans being off their heads and out of control - it was "like "the wild west" on his bus. Liverpool fans pissing over the walls into folk's front gardens, being abusive and not giving a fuck etc

Sure, the Police had overall responsibility, fucked up majorly and several of them lied and covered up, and still are. The Wednesday ground didn't have a safety certificate, the FA should never have put the game there given previous experiences, yet.....those scousers who turned up without tickets, hoping to push their way in, have blood on their hands. They too contributed to the deaths of their fellow fans. Their behaviour put weak inexperienced match commander and others under pressure that they couldn't handle and the SYPolice failed in their handling. If ticketless unruly Liverpool fans hadnt been present it would have been far less likely to have happened. Nothing will convince me otherwise.

"Liverpool fans pissing over the walls into folk's front gardens, being abusive and not giving a fuck etc"

i think all clubs had the same sort of following in those days, i know a lad who was at hillsborough , and in no way were the police the only people at blame, however ,because the scousers kick up a never ending stink things they did that day will never see the light of day again and it will be 100% be the polices fault , the police opened the wrong gate and that directly lead to the overcrowding and they should of been severely dealt with , however there were thousands that day jibbing in,thousands that day pissed or high, and there were thousands that day that no matter what they were getting into the ground

 

[give it to gordon]

People died that day it was the policing that was wrong. There is good and bad in all fans of clubs. If we were any good at the time it could have been us lot in the leppings lane.

But for any policed event it needs to cooperation of the public to be successful and safe.

100's of pissed up fans turn up late causing a crush at the turnstiles. We know what happened sadly the well behaved liverpool fans were killed by their own fans.

That's a statement that's gets you in trouble. You cant say that but you can only blame the police.

The fact is large amount of liverpool fans think they are above the law and so does the law !.

Heysel, Hillsborough, Paris, countless other incidents in Europe, coach welcomes. The press/media wont have a word said against them.

To many incidents have happened with liverpool fans but we are meant to believe that they are completely innocent of any wrong doing.

I have watch lots of videos of dippers climbing fences in Paris, I have seen plenty of videos and photos of hundreds of fake liverpool tickets. Now I am meant to believe I havent seen any of this and the dippers are completely innocent.

I see little kiddies in dippers shirts and wonder why are you letting your kid follow them. Have you any idea of their behaviour ?. Of course not it's been araised from history and the little kids parents arent into football.

I really wish our press/media had some balls and told the truth about liverpool fc.

I will never set foot in liverpool and as for lfc my hatred grows daily. The press/media tells us to support liverpool in the champions league final, fuck off.

I have had complete strangers come up to me many times, these are fans of other clubs congratulating me on City winning the league and beating the dippers.

I really dont know why Tyler has apologised no one apologised to City when we were cleared by CAS.

 

[hammocity]

There were probably people who travelled without tickets. People used to slip the turnstile operator a few quid and, on a terrace, a few extra wouldn't matter. But the evidence is clear that stories of a huge number of ticketless fans rushing the gates is a myth. People really need to stop coming out with this.

CCTV evidence can't detect whether people had tickets or not but the consensus was that the number of people in that Leppings Lane terrace was broadly consistent with the number of tickets sold. And even if 100 got i. without tickets, that wouldn't have made a difference had the plan been followed to close the central pens off when they were visibly full.

And even if large numbers had travelled without tickets, the previous operational plan, which Duckenfield completely ignored, called for ticket checks at points along Leppings Lane to ensure only fans with tickets got to the gates. Had he followed his predecessor's well-established plan, no ticketless fans could have got through.

I agree huge mistakes were made but their fans had a reputation of attending matches in huge numbers without tickets. I think it was the 76/77 season we played them at home, I always got to the ground around 20 minutes before kick off, got to the Kippax and there was no orderly queue as normal, it was full of their fans trying to jib in, it was absolute chaos. I got in the ground around 15 minutes after kick off and a good number of them had managed to gain entry obviously without tickets, it’s what they did/do.

You have a better knowledge than most on the report and I take that on board.

 

[SWPISHOME]

Having listened to the Tyler interview yesterday I think it's ludicrous that something has even being made of this situation. The main word to come out of it is that Tyler used was "other" he said "Hillsborough and OTHER related hooligism" he didn't say that Hillsborough was down to Hooligans.

As much as I hate the **** he hasn't said anything wrong. Liverpool fans making a big deal out of absolutely nothing as usual. Tyler having to come out yesterday and explain himself along with apologosing is a disgrace.

It's actually really draining and tiresome listening to Hillsborough every single season and people having to use their words carefully when talking about it, Basically having to lick up the scousers arses every year!

 

[BerkshireBlue]

There were probably people who travelled without tickets. People used to slip the turnstile operator a few quid and, on a terrace, a few extra wouldn't matter. But the evidence is clear that stories of a huge number of ticketless fans rushing the gates is a myth. People really need to stop coming out with this.

CCTV evidence can't detect whether people had tickets or not but the consensus was that the number of people in that Leppings Lane terrace was broadly consistent with the number of tickets sold. And even if 100 got i. without tickets, that wouldn't have made a difference had the plan been followed to close the central pens off when they were visibly full.

And even if large numbers had travelled without tickets, the previous operational plan, which Duckenfield completely ignored, called for ticket checks at points along Leppings Lane to ensure only fans with tickets got to the gates. Had he followed his predecessor's well-established plan, no ticketless fans could have got through.

but it was the fans outside the ground causing the crush at the gates the number of people in the stand has fuck all to do with it. They either would have died at the gates due to ticketless fans or died in the tunnel due to police opening the gates. Shame they didn't use tear gas on them like in Paris