Peter Walton..

[big gaz]

Nothing in Law 11 for Offside mentions "Control". The relevant part of the law simply says...

• A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

Rodri is no longer offside as soon as Mings chests the ball. By doing so, Mings has played the ball deliberately. It is completely irrelevant if Mings does or doesn't control it.

And if you argue that he was challenging for the ball, then you have to look at the Offside Offences bit. The answers to this bit are clear as well though...(answers in BOLD)

• A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
  • interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate (NO - Rodri doesn't touch it until after Mings does) or
  • interfering with an opponent by:
  • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision (NO - Rodri is behind Mings) or
  • challenging an opponent for the ball (NO - not until after Mings has deliberately played the ball) or
  • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent (NO - Rodri is at least 2 probably 3-4 yards away when Mings chests it) or
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball (NO - As previous, Rodri is at least 2 probably 3-4 yards away when Mings chests it)

The Ronaldo clip is exactly the same situation, and from what I've seen on social media is being reported in Italy as a refereeing mistake and shouldn't have been called offside.

Send to Villa manager ;-)

 

[bert's broken neck]

The number of times Walton got to ref us against Everton and the number of times we were shafted by him had me believing he came from Walton - maybe be just had an affinity with that part of the world! Shown up for what he is last night - clueless and ignorant of the laws of the game!

 

[level_two]

I thought it was offside because Rodri affected Mings’ control. Without Rodri there would he have been so “hurried”? Looks like the correct decision was made though and I’ve misinterpreted the rule.

I think he certainly disregarded Rodri as a threat and considered him unable to play the ball. But how long should Mings be allowed before he can be tackled?

In the Wigan cup game where Walker allowed the ball to run through because the nearest attacker was offside but Griggs ran through and scored, you could argue Walker's decision was affected by the position of the offside attacker.

But I think this type of influence is hard to determine so the rules will always stick to the more defined "preventing the opponent", "obstructing the line of vision" etc.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Cant believe he gets paid money by BT to humiliate himself every week. Commentator asks him to say what decision he would give an why. VAR happens and replays. He is shown to have been wrong as fuck, and then proceeds to explain his decision differently like he was right all along. From the Kellyann Conway of alternative facts. Having him on there is pointless, laughable and embarrassing for him. Glad I dont give BT any money

 

[Bill the Blue]

I've calmed down a bit now so apologies for all the swearing in my opening post..

Thinking about the game in the cold light of day it's absolutely disgraceful how we get commentated on whenever we play..

Negative, negative negative comments, stick the boot in whilst bigging up our opposition every time we play, that's how it comes across to me ..

Even in CL games where Madrid, Lyon, Barcelona, Munich, whoever we play get gushed over whilst we are dismissed as not good enough..

McManaman last night let out an almighty groan when a Villa attack broke down, he was absolutely gutted, you could clearly tell..

Not a chance he'd do the same in a dipper game..

Then you have the drug test dodger in the studio, beside himself with grief because we'd scored was was proved to be a legitimate goal..

Walton, an ex professional referee engaging his mouth before his brain to tell the watching world Bernie's goal shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Lost all dignity when he contradicted himself in the studio when, no doubt, he was told the offside law in his earpiece..

He's blatantly not fit for purpose if his only job is to share his referreeing knowledge with the general public and it turns out that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about..

How embarrassing is that..

The rags game after us was chalk and cheese regarding positivity..

The studio pundits were so pleased for them, couldn't praise them enough..

What did we get.. poor old Villa, riddled with covid, not trained, played, seen each other for weeks and who have been cheated out of a result by a team who we all dispise ..

Grealish should have been booked and then sent off for assaulting Walker, Stones and Jesus, not a peep out of the commentary team or the studio pundits though..

It's beyond tiresome now..

They can all get fcuked..!

CTID..

 

[BlueTG]

The goalkeeper fumble is an interesting one to mention because that is the most common one and is ruled out every time. It comes down to the interpretation of "ball under control", if a keeper blocks a shot he clearly doesn't have control of it but if he parries it to his feet does the attacker have the right to tackle him before he gathers it? We all know the answer is no, so its the same for Mings. Does he have control of the ball? I would say clearly not because by the time its at his foot Rodri is on top of him, exact same as the clip I posted above of Ronaldo. At the very least the decision is subjective based on opinion and not fact. The ref should have looked at it and decided for himself if Mings had it under control.

He most probably did, when the match was actually playing out.

Stop playing Devil’s advocate, you’re making yourself out to be a twat.

 

[Maly]

I've calmed down a bit now so apologies for all the swearing in my opening post..

Thinking about the game in the cold light of day it's absolutely disgraceful how we get commentated on whenever we play..

Negative, negative negative comments, stick the boot in whilst bigging up our opposition every time we play, that's how it comes across to me ..

Even in CL games where Madrid, Lyon, Barcelona, Munich, whoever we play get gushed over whilst we are dismissed as not good enough..

McManaman last night let out an almighty groan when a Villa attack broke down, he was absolutely gutted, you could clearly tell..

Not a chance he'd do the same in a dipper game..

Then you have the drug test dodger in the studio, beside himself with grief because we'd scored was was proved to be a legitimate goal..

Walton, an ex professional referee engaging his mouth before his brain to tell the watching world Bernie's goal shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Lost all dignity when he contradicted himself in the studio when, no doubt, he was told the offside law in his earpiece..

He's blatantly not fit for purpose if his only job is to share his referreeing knowledge with the general public and it turns out that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about..

How embarrassing is that..

The rags game after us was chalk and cheese regarding positivity..

The studio pundits were so pleased for them, couldn't praise them enough..

What did we get.. poor old Villa, riddled with covid, not trained, played, seen each other for weeks and who have been cheated out of a result by a team who we all dispise ..

Grealish should have been booked and then sent off for assaulting Walker, Stones and Jesus, not a peep out of the commentary team or the studio pundits though..

It's beyond tiresome now..

They can all get fcuked..!

CTID..

Don’t let it bother you bud. See it as their pain & bitterness that we’re a fucking unbelievable team & you might even start enjoying & laughing at some of the comments we get during games. I find it all funny as fuck :)

 

[johnnytapia]

I've calmed down a bit now so apologies for all the swearing in my opening post..

Thinking about the game in the cold light of day it's absolutely disgraceful how we get commentated on whenever we play..

Negative, negative negative comments, stick the boot in whilst bigging up our opposition every time we play, that's how it comes across to me ..

Even in CL games where Madrid, Lyon, Barcelona, Munich, whoever we play get gushed over whilst we are dismissed as not good enough..

McManaman last night let out an almighty groan when a Villa attack broke down, he was absolutely gutted, you could clearly tell..

Not a chance he'd do the same in a dipper game..

Then you have the drug test dodger in the studio, beside himself with grief because we'd scored was was proved to be a legitimate goal..

Walton, an ex professional referee engaging his mouth before his brain to tell the watching world Bernie's goal shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Lost all dignity when he contradicted himself in the studio when, no doubt, he was told the offside law in his earpiece..

He's blatantly not fit for purpose if his only job is to share his referreeing knowledge with the general public and it turns out that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about..

How embarrassing is that..

The rags game after us was chalk and cheese regarding positivity..

The studio pundits were so pleased for them, couldn't praise them enough..

What did we get.. poor old Villa, riddled with covid, not trained, played, seen each other for weeks and who have been cheated out of a result by a team who we all dispise ..

Grealish should have been booked and then sent off for assaulting Walker, Stones and Jesus, not a peep out of the commentary team or the studio pundits though..

It's beyond tiresome now..

They can all get fcuked..!

CTID..

Just makes the winning sweeter.

 

[johnnytapia]

I think he certainly disregarded Rodri as a threat and considered him unable to play the ball. But how long should Mings be allowed before he can be tackled?

In the Wigan cup game where Walker allowed the ball to run through because the nearest attacker was offside but Griggs ran through and scored, you could argue Walker's decision was affected by the position of the offside attacker.

But I think this type of influence is hard to determine so the rules will always stick to the more defined "preventing the opponent", "obstructing the line of vision" etc.

I thought mings wasn’t sure Rodri was on or off and I think that’s the problem with the rule. Defenders can’t take the risk now because the flag doesn’t go up. So they have to play the ball which is how we got the goal. Legitimately I might add but unfair IMHO

 

[Lancsblue60]

This fkin wanker is clueless..

Paid by BT to provide unbiased, refereeing input during games doesn't even know the fkin offside rule yet he's on my TV screen gobbing off that Bernie's goal should have been disallowed..

Fatso Moss and the faceless knobs in the VAR studio thought otherwise though you bent scouse twat..!

Changed his tune in the studio and lost all fkin credibility in the process..!

He can fcuk right off and take that diving, greasy, cheating twat Grealish with him..


Brilliant win given next to no credit for by a bunch of sad bastards at BT!!

Noticed that myself, however, I seam to recall a bit about if the ball is touched by a member of the defending team who is then dispossessed then there can be no offside. All down to interpretation, maybe its because they dont want their beloved United upended on the last day of the season AGAIN!! so are trying to build up a larger buffer to help them. I thought Jon Moss was quite lenient with AV last night and we should have had a number of free kicks with AV having a few bookings. The other problem with the offside rules as well is they keep chopping and changing them year on year to the point where nobodies got a fekkin clue

 

[fulabeer]

Assuming they got it all wrong (they didn't), what was Rodri supposed to do?

1: Run back on side, then turn and then tackle Mings
2: How far would he have to be from Mings for people to be happy?
3: Or is it a time thing. Give Mings time to decide what he wants to do
4: If it is a time thing how long...2 mins?
5: If Mings controlled the ball, turned round and back passed to the goalie, should Rodri have left well alone?
6: If he left well alone, how long should he have waited before tackling the goalie?

OR

As soon as Mings takes the ball creating a new phase of play, FUCKING TACKLE HIM!

 

[Maly]

Assuming they got it all wrong (they didn't), what was Rodri supposed to do?

1: Run back on side, then turn and then tackle Mings
2: How far would he have to be from Mings for people to be happy?
3: Or is it a time thing. Give Mings time to decide what he wants to do
4: If it is a time thing how long...2 mins?
5: If Mings controlled the ball, turned round and back passed to the goalie, should Rodri have left well alone?
6: If he left well alone, how long should he have waited before tackling the goalie?

OR

As soon as Mings takes the ball creating a new phase of play, FUCKING TACKLE HIM!

He should’ve done the morally correct thing. Lmfao at some of the comments from Gallagher.

 

[toffee balls]

I've calmed down a bit now so apologies for all the swearing in my opening post..

Thinking about the game in the cold light of day it's absolutely disgraceful how we get commentated on whenever we play..

Negative, negative negative comments, stick the boot in whilst bigging up our opposition every time we play, that's how it comes across to me ..

Even in CL games where Madrid, Lyon, Barcelona, Munich, whoever we play get gushed over whilst we are dismissed as not good enough..

McManaman last night let out an almighty groan when a Villa attack broke down, he was absolutely gutted, you could clearly tell..

Not a chance he'd do the same in a dipper game..

Then you have the drug test dodger in the studio, beside himself with grief because we'd scored was was proved to be a legitimate goal..

Walton, an ex professional referee engaging his mouth before his brain to tell the watching world Bernie's goal shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Lost all dignity when he contradicted himself in the studio when, no doubt, he was told the offside law in his earpiece..

He's blatantly not fit for purpose if his only job is to share his referreeing knowledge with the general public and it turns out that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about..

How embarrassing is that..

The rags game after us was chalk and cheese regarding positivity..

The studio pundits were so pleased for them, couldn't praise them enough..

What did we get.. poor old Villa, riddled with covid, not trained, played, seen each other for weeks and who have been cheated out of a result by a team who we all dispise ..

Grealish should have been booked and then sent off for assaulting Walker, Stones and Jesus, not a peep out of the commentary team or the studio pundits though..

It's beyond tiresome now..

They can all get fcuked..!

CTID..

Good post.

Is it time for us to throw off the shackles of a lifetime of being fair and reasonable fans and just becoming what we are portrayed to be , a bunch of arrogant cunts.

Anybody in.

 

[Pablo123]

Remember Brian Clough on the offside conundrum saying if a players not interfering with play then he shouldn’t be on the pitch :)

 

[Jesus2020]

The offside that wasn't offside. Irrefutable proof that the refs aren't there to help Utd. Proof it's not just them that get the decisions. Proof, if needed, that their 1 pen per game ratio is purely coincidencal and it all equals out in the end.

Problem is. It wasn't offside. And these little things that go in our favour will be recorded as stats but the story behind them will be for every 80th min penalty we get when 3 0 up against Brighton their pen will be at 0-0.
For every var decision we get when already 2 0 up at 70 mins they will get one at 1 0 with 5 mins to go.

The stats don't lie. But they don't tell the truth either.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Does he have control of the ball? I would say clearly not... At the very least the decision is subjective based on opinion and not fact. The ref should have looked at it and decided for himself if Mings had it under control.

How many times man?

It's got NOTHING to do with "having control of the ball"!

"If the defender makes a deliberate ATTEMPT to PLAY the ball", is the wording of the law.

He did, END OF, as you lot like to say.

JOG ON!

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Bent Scouse **** who we rumbled out of a cushy job.

He obviously doesn't have any grudge against us for it...

Close thread.
In a Nutshell.

 

[ancoats]

How many times man?

It's got NOTHING to do with "having control of the ball"!

"If the defender makes a deliberate ATTEMPT to PLAY the ball", is the wording of the law.

He did, END OF, as you lot like to say.

JOG ON!

spot on
mings got it wrong the officials and rodri got it right its that simple ?

PS

BT-sport and the rest of the so called pundits can fuck off and go and read the rule book before committing themselves to the wrong answers. it makes them look even more daft and that's not so hard to do with some on that panel of ex-players and officials. its defo (money for old rope) sitting there talking shit

 

[Blue Mist]

I thought mings wasn’t sure Rodri was on or off and I think that’s the problem with the rule. Defenders can’t take the risk now because the flag doesn’t go up. So they have to play the ball which is how we got the goal. Legitimately I might add but unfair IMHO

Johnny, there is a saying, when in a hole, stop digging.
If Mings did not know Rodri was behind him he shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place. He did not know the law simple as and assumed Rodri would not tackle him because he was offside. He should have headed it clear but he messed up. Rodri either knew the rule or chanced his arm hoping no flag would go up. Bearing in mind how stupid referees are it makes Mings stupidity worse.

 

[Gordyola]

Remember Brian Clough on the offside conundrum saying if a players not interfering with play then he shouldn’t be on the pitch :)

No but I done remember Bill Shankley saying it The law was changed in 1995 to remove being offside as an automatic offence, introducing inactive and active. It was a good change as great goals were ruled out, eg a thirty yard screamer because a player was offside near the corner flag