PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Fair enough.

And then it gets returned to whoever provided it? Or does it all go to the PL for "filing"?

It'll only be a copy, so the options are the PL keep it filed, or destroy it.
If they keep it, I don't think it will leak to other clubs unless the PL want to totally destroy trust in themselves from clubs, after all who will be next?
 
Up until the Aguerooooo moment, in my memory they’ve only had 1 season where anything like it has happened. That was the season Arsenal beat Liverpool at Anfield…we’ve given them (in no particular order):
1. Agueroooo
2. Villa
3. First team to win the Domestic treble
4. Winning the league with 100 pts
5. Most goals in a domestic season
6. Tied for most wins in a domestic season
7. Most away wins in a domestic season
8. Pep football
9. Kerching…for the massive deals the PL has been able to negotiate off the back of the above

the list goes on, but they really should be thanking us to the high heavens for the PL being the success it is, in no small part due to us…

And Michael Thomas scoring the title winner at Anfield was in 1989 and pre-PL.
 
As already explained - we “lose” staff because they are trained so well, other clubs want them. At the same time - see below (just 2 weeks ago)



Man City poach former Liverpool coach just 14 months after he joined Newcastle​

Manchester City have moved to boost their backroom staff by poaching a coach who has been key to Newcastle's turnaround from relegation candidates to top four challengers
Pep Guardiola will poach a Newcastle coach who previously worked at Liverpool
Pep Guardiola will poach a Newcastle coach who previously worked at Liverpool(Chris Brunskill/Fantasista/Getty Images)
  • By
    Jacob Leeks
  • 09:16, 21 Feb 2023UPDATED09:41, 21 Feb 2023

Manchester City have poached Newcastlecoaching analyst Mark Leyland, just 14 months after he joined the Magpies from Liverpool.

Leyland had spent nine years at Anfield, working for his boyhood club,
Better monitor his outbound email activity then...;)
 
Yes, this seems to be the position. But surely the fact that we cooperated after the High Court ruling on the matter would be relevant in terms of deciding the punishment? Even the CAS agreed that we deserved a fairly heavy fine for not cooperating in those proceedings, but the circumstances then were quite different.

Then, we expressly declined to cooperate, telling UEFA we didn't trust their process, and waited until we went before an independent tribunal before producing relevant evidence. Here, we told the PL that we didn't think they were entitled to ask for what they had, no doubt on legal advice. It turned out that the High Court agreed with them and not us. If we cooperated in full once we had clarification of what we were legally entitled to ask for, then it would seem to mitigate City's position significantly, wouldn't it?

I also note, and believe, TH's comment to the effect that we've provided the PL with a welter of material. In MCFC's own statement, the club made reference to the "vast amount of detailed materials that the EPL has been provided with". The point in this regard that I (like others) find hard to square in my own mind is why, in this event, the PL has charged us.

We've already run through the theoretical possibilities (either they have convincing evidence we're not aware of or they've given in when pressured by the redshirts to follow this course). To those, Stefan added another - that we're incorrect in our analysis with regard to the standard of proof.

If we speculate on the point that they did so having folded in the face of pressure, then I think a further issue worth raising here is the role of the media. Back in a previous lifetime, I worked for six years in the UK central government, and I've seen how ostensibly sensible and professional people can sometimes act in ways that seem to run completely counter to those qualities with a view to avoiding public criticism.

With regard to the Der Spiegel emails, I don't dispute that they showed City in a wholly negative light and were extremely damaging. Comments and discussions were committed to email that never should have been (to say nothing of the questions the episode raised with regard to our IT security, but that's a separate issue). However, Der Spiegel's presentation of the hacked documents was IMO highly selective and sensational, resulting it it being misleading to a layman reader. Intentionally so, I suspect.

The British press's resultant coverage was, however, utterly hysterical. I understand that this was a big story and it quite clearly raised serious questions for the club to answer. I have no problem with it being reported as such. But the rush to condemn the club - and the general attendant glee at having the opportunity to do so - went far, far beyond any notion of fair and impartial reporting. The only mainstream media figure with any sympathy for us was Martin Samuel, and even he assumed from the off that we were guilty.

People label this kind of thinking as paranoid, but there are journalists out there who've admitted to pushing in their reporting a line of argument that's aimed at discrediting City. Miguel Delaney and Nick Harris have both been quite open on social media about having done (and continuing to do) so, while The Guardian seems very clearly to me to have an anti-City editorial stance.

In this context, it matters little why they do this. The fact is that it sets an agenda and the rest of the football press pack follows. These people have minimal knowledge or expertise when it comes to the off-field aspects of the game, so when the prevailing narrative is set, they follow. That's what's happened with City, IMO. A few have stirred the pot and succeeded in creating a febrile environment in which MCFC are acknowledged as cheats so punishment is expected.

My contention is that, in a context where the PL has faced considerable pressure from within on the part of the redshirts to act against City, there's been considerable pressure from without, too. We'll gain an idea of what the truth is in due course, I suppose, but for now I don't find it inconceivable that the media attitude could have influenced the PL to a certain, contributory degree (I'm not saying it could be the main factor).

After all, I think that few people when taking a decision with ramifications that interest many people want to find that decision widely and publicly lambasted. And a decision on the part of the PL to decline to charge City would have been met with vituperative condemnation from the usual suspects and, most likely, from far wider quarters than that.
What a great post.

I agree there is a degree of mitigation in the point that we were entitled to dispute the legality of the disclosure sought. There is also mitigation in the point that whilst we might have initially challenged the extent of the disclosure sought, having lost on that particular argument we have complied in full with the disclosure obligations since. (That is certainly the inference I draw from the skipful of paperwork TH referred to us as having provided.)

But there is also something in the point that we have taken every possible point we could on every occasion we could (eg challenges to the constitution of the arbitral panel, the publicity appeal) each of which can be justified in isolation but, when taken together, might lead the tribunal to think " I know what you lot were up to." There is also something in the fact that we've had one big fine for non-cooperation so we knew what was coming and we did it anyway.

So I think whilst there are real differences between the current proceedings and the UEFA/CAS round, we are facing a whopper of a fine. Again.

So why have they charged us, notwithstanding said skipful of material?

I go back to the possibilities:

(a) they have a whistleblower. Personally, I doubt it, because we'd have heard about it if they did. And they would have had to disclose it to the club in the course of the investigation "we have a witness who says...". We have discussed the legal difficulties they are in if they don't have this evidence already, and I like Stefan's point that even a whistleblower may not be enough.

(b) They just haven't thought it through in terms of the legal hurdles they have to get over. Again, I doubt it. Bird & Bird are not fools and they will have gone to a top silk just like we have.

(c) Stefan's point that we might have got the law wrong. At the risk of sounding arrogant and hubristic, we haven't.

(d) They are under pressure to bring charges against us even if the charges won't succeed.

To my mind that is the most probable explanation in an area where all the possible explanations have serious question marks about them. I do agree with you about the different pressures, internal and external, they must be under. There must also be a degree of interaction between them - the pressure from the red tops is exacerbated by the pressure from the media (quite possibly because the red tops have their own client journalists). We all know people and organisations who will take the path of least resistance when they shouldn't. The PL was (a) under pressure (implicit or otherwise) from the government in view of the white paper and the intention to appoint a regulator unless it could show it was getting its act together, (b) under pressure (probably) from the red tops to throw the book at us because 'they must be cheating mustn't they' and (c) under pressure from the media (certainly) for not taking decisive action against that dodgy bunch from Abu Dhabi.

I'd agree that, chances are, they were under pressure and they caved.
 
As already explained - we “lose” staff because they are trained so well, other clubs want them. At the same time - see below (just 2 weeks ago)



Man City poach former Liverpool coach just 14 months after he joined Newcastle​

Manchester City have moved to boost their backroom staff by poaching a coach who has been key to Newcastle's turnaround from relegation candidates to top four challengers
Pep Guardiola will poach a Newcastle coach who previously worked at Liverpool
Pep Guardiola will poach a Newcastle coach who previously worked at Liverpool(Chris Brunskill/Fantasista/Getty Images)
  • By
    Jacob Leeks
  • 09:16, 21 Feb 2023UPDATED09:41, 21 Feb 2023

Manchester City have poached Newcastlecoaching analyst Mark Leyland, just 14 months after he joined the Magpies from Liverpool.

Leyland had spent nine years at Anfield, working for his boyhood club,

I hope he brings the log on details and passwords with him.
 
Do we have recourse for any of this if it indeed is all shown to be crap? From my laypersons view it seems the PL are free to slander and charge as much as they like. If thats the case, why wouldnt they?

The clearest recourse we have is that if we succeed, or mostly succeed, we will be awarded our costs. We won’t get every penny but we will probably get maybe 75% of what we have spent.

Which will be quite a lot.

More generally, there is of course a clear public interest in allowing regulatory bodies like the PL to be able to bring proceedings without fear of reprisals like actions for libel, malicious prosecution, whatever it may be. For that reason, there are remedies available, but the law tends to restrict claims of that sort where you can show the charges were brought against you maliciously, ie not in good faith. We would need to prove, in other words, that the PL caved in to pressure from the red shirts and that won’t happen in a month of Sundays.

make no mistake, it seems to me that bringing charges that involve allegations of dishonesty against HHSM or those close to him personally will not be taken lying down. TH knows far far more about this than I do, but my impression is that the PL have grabbed a tiger by the tail.

A very large, very powerful tiger with incredibly strong jaws and very sharp teeth.

who is now a very pissed off tiger.

if I could do gifs, this would be the bit where I include the Liam Neeson “I will have my revenge” one.

my guess.
 

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