PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

mancboy said:
but to what end would such a ridiculous size points deduction be given, of course i understand a sizeable deduction to ensure relegation is understandable but to suggest that we would be given a points deduction large enough to relegate us several leagues is unlikely surely.

Also doesnt evertons case have different facets in that they were warned multiple times and continued, ours is different entirely as i understand but of course your knowledge far outweighs mine.
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It's all theoretical, as there are few, if any known precedents. But a good way to punish us with relegation would to be give a 100 points deduction. If the breaches were so severe that 100 points was deemed insufficient, they could apply a much larger points deduction.

Any number of scenarios might play out after that. The EFL might refuse to accept us. The EFL might accept us in their lowest tier. We might argue that the points deduction puts us at the bottom of the PL, therefore we should be relegated to the Championship. We might join Real and Barcelona and start a Superleague. Nobody knows, and it's all just speculation at this point.
 
Paladin said:
It's all theoretical, as there are few, if any known precedents. But a good way to punish us with relegation would to be give a 100 points deduction. If the breaches were so severe that 100 points was deemed insufficient, they could apply a much larger points deduction.

Any number of scenarios might play out after that. The EFL might refuse to accept us. The EFL might accept us in their lowest tier. We might argue that the points deduction puts us at the bottom of the PL, therefore we should be relegated to the Championship. We might join Real and Barcelona and start a Superleague. Nobody knows, and it's all just speculation at this point.
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if its a points deduction thats what it is, points only last for one season, it could be fifty or a it could be a million it would make zero difference as points only apply to a single season, we aint the dippers or the rags where we think historical things count for the next 20 seasons, if we finished on minus 10000 points we would start on 0 the next season same as everyone else, expulsion from the league would be a whole different kettle of fish but i would love to see them try and make that stick from a legal standpoint.
 
halfcenturyup said:
There is definitely that point that these people would have to be particularly stupid to be discussing financial fraud on emails. Then there is the point that they would have to be even more stupid to leave proof of it lying around the company here in the UK. Assuming these people aren't stupid (and they arent) then, ipso facto, the PL won't have access to any evidence of the alleged fraud, even if it was carried out, which is amazingly unlikely. And on top of all that, the premise that Etihad and Etisalat would only sign fair value sponsorship agreements if a private individual contributed what, to them, constitutes peanuts, in two regulated industries, is just so amazingly ridiculous as to be unbelievable. I can't believe for a minute the PL think they have a chance of success.
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The media has created a feeding frenzy and scared a lot of blues.

The case is and always has been a crock of shit which is why CAS threw it out and stated multiple times no disguised owner investment.

Also, why did we take the pinch and post huge losses if we have been loading sponsorships?
 
Elbow beards said:
All this talk of playing Rochdale or whoever is total bollocks. As has been stated the Premier League and League are two different entities. The premier could give us a 250 point deduction but that wouldn't carry over to lower leagues, we'd be in the Championship that's it.
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Exactly and this is the thing that I have been stressing to some Rags that I know, The PL have no power to relegate us to any specific league. The only other option that they have would be to expel us completely from the PL in which case we would then have to appeal to the EFL for membership and it would be them who decide where we would enter the structure.

However the key thing for me is this, how much damage would be done to us as a club if we were expelled and the EPL said we needed to start again in Division 2? It would be huge, the money lost alone by the time we returned to the Premier league would run over a Billion pounds.

Now imagine that we then appeal the decision and win, or better still go to court and prove FFP to be illegal under EU laws and then go after the PL for last revenue and damages. We would quite possibly bankrupt them. Therefore I see the worst that happens is a huge points deduction to relegate us.

I do wonder if they would try to do something radical like a total 300 point reduction but broken down into 60 point deductions for every year we are in the PL. This would guarantee that every time we gained promotion we would get relegated again the following season. No top level player would want to come to us knowing this and as such would basically ruin us for the next 20 years plus.
 
Paladin said:
It's all theoretical, as there are few, if any known precedents. But a good way to punish us with relegation would to be give a 100 points deduction. If the breaches were so severe that 100 points was deemed insufficient, they could apply a much larger points deduction.

Any number of scenarios might play out after that. The EFL might refuse to accept us. The EFL might accept us in their lowest tier. We might argue that the points deduction puts us at the bottom of the PL, therefore we should be relegated to the Championship. We might join Real and Barcelona and start a Superleague. Nobody knows, and it's all just speculation at this point.
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A win for either City or the Premier League will have some cataclysmic fall out for English football and a knock on into European football. They try to deal with City with relegation it pushes the most successful club in the last ten years towards the Super League, if they don’t seem to be dealing with us the teams in red will be taking their bat and ball to the super league instead.

They opened up Pandora’s box when they implemented ffp and now with all the sanctions being laid out at Everton the rumblings of discontent at the people running the premier league will get bigger and bigger.
 
abu13 said:
Exactly and this is the thing that I have been stressing to some Rags that I know, The PL have no power to relegate us to any specific league. The only other option that they have would be to expel us completely from the PL in which case we would then have to appeal to the EFL for membership and it would be them who decide where we would enter the structure.

However the key thing for me is this, how much damage would be done to us as a club if we were expelled and the EPL said we needed to start again in Division 2? It would be huge, the money lost alone by the time we returned to the Premier league would run over a Billion pounds.

Now imagine that we then appeal the decision and win, or better still go to court and prove FFP to be illegal under EU laws and then go after the PL for last revenue and damages. We would quite possibly bankrupt them. Therefore I see the worst that happens is a huge points deduction to relegate us.

I do wonder if they would try to do something radical like a total 300 point reduction but broken down into 60 point deductions for every year we are in the PL. This would guarantee that every time we gained promotion we would get relegated again the following season. No top level player would want to come to us knowing this and as such would basically ruin us for the next 20 years plus.
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honestly some of people should write film scripts or stay off the hard drugs
 
IF(and it won't be) anything was proven and if it came as far us being expelled or relegated or whatever, with these new financial rules across the board, it would end up catastrophic for the club. Job losses, key figures potentially prosecuted.

But if we were expelled and the club was essentially destroyed, as so many want it to be, it would go against what these rules were supposedly brought in for. They are supposed to protect clubs and stop them from going into oblivion. Or so they said...... We know the truth of why they were brought in.
 
Paladin said:
It's all theoretical, as there are few, if any known precedents. But a good way to punish us with relegation would to be give a 100 points deduction. If the breaches were so severe that 100 points was deemed insufficient, they could apply a much larger points deduction.

Any number of scenarios might play out after that. The EFL might refuse to accept us. The EFL might accept us in their lowest tier. We might argue that the points deduction puts us at the bottom of the PL, therefore we should be relegated to the Championship. We might join Real and Barcelona and start a Superleague. Nobody knows, and it's all just speculation at this point.
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100 million points?

But imagine us "winning" the league, but being relegated due to the points deduction. The winners that year would be the ones with the biggest asterisk of all time.
 
While the press debate whether a massive points deduction or expulsion from the PL is a fitting punishment for City's hideous crimes and Lord Chief Justice Jordan insists there is a case to answer a succession of mere football finance experts - Maguire, Ioannidis, Plumley and our own Stefan Borson, to name but four - have pointed out that proving these charges will be very difficult indeed since they are supposed to have taken place continuously over a period of ten years and involve companies with a global reputation for integrity and individuals well known on the world stage and respected in diplomatic circles. If we look at the commission which passed judgement on Everton, for violating PL spending limits we find that it was made up of a KC and the former finance director of a PL club. It was NOT a case of a senior judge presiding over a properly constituted court of law applying laws enacted by a sovereign body. The body which judges City's case will be similar to the Everton body and to find that City have done anything like what the PL claims is, as Stefan put it, "a big call". I think that the scale and gravity of the charges must be dawning on the PL and that any consideration of such charges is way beyond its competence.
 
StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
While the press debate whether a massive points deduction or expulsion from the PL is a fitting punishment for City's hideous crimes and Lord Chief Justice Jordan insists there is a case to answer a succession of mere football finance experts - Maguire, Ioannidis, Plumley and our own Stefan Borson, to name but four - have pointed out that proving these charges will be very difficult indeed since they are supposed to have taken place continuously over a period of ten years and involve companies with a global reputation for integrity and individuals well known on the world stage and respected in diplomatic circles. If we look at the commission which passed judgement on Everton, for violating PL spending limits we find that it was made up of a KC and the former finance director of a PL club. It was NOT a case of a senior judge presiding over a properly constituted court of law applying laws enacted by a sovereign body. The body which judges City's case will be similar to the Everton body and to find that City have done anything like what the PL claims is, as Stefan put it, "a big call". I think that the scale and gravity of the charges must be dawning on the PL and that any consideration of such charges is way beyond its competence.
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If the pl find City guilty of fraud. What actions will these big global companies take against the pl to clear their names ? I'm not talking City here but these companies. When these companies clear their names thsn that clears City.

I get the feeling the pl are playing with fire and clearly dont understand the gravity of what the are accusing these big companies of.
 
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