PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Dribble said:
Clarification:

Manchester City Football Club have been Charged by the Premier League with 115 Breaches of their FFP rules.

They've selected 3 members from their internal 6 member panel made up of legal professionals to preside over the tribunal.

At this point, I'm now not sure whether City have submitted any evidence or not.

Once the PL's panel have conducted the tribunal, they'll publish their findings on the PL's website.

At this point, City can either accept in part, or in whole the panels verdict, & submit an appeal.

Now I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty well sure this is actually our situation. We've all been assuming they've found us guilty, BUT we've only been charged!

I believe the tribunal is ongoing, but because it's private & confidential, no updates are being released or leaked, as opposed to what happened with UEFA.

Now it's my hope that before the PL's panel get anywhere near a finding, that the Government's IREF comes into force.

The hope is IREF will not only be truly independent, it will also transform English football from being governed by the PL's private members club Rules, to being governed under UK Law.

Phew! I think this is where we actually stand as of today, but I'm happy to be corrected.
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citizen_maine said:
Please don't speak for the rest of us. You've changed your view twice in the last 4 pages and have no idea what you think, never mind anyone else

:-)
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I would say be very careful what you post as you are flip flopping and causing even more confusion to blues who aren’t up to speed or bamboozled with jargon.
 
Cellarite said:
I didn't read it properly. Just clicked on it and assumed it was an online article.
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Did you check the one by the Dipper. Absolute belter. Works out who would win the PL title if we were docked 3 points over the last few season (nothing to do with the charges). Surprisingly it would have awarded the Dippers a few more titles. Cracking read.
 
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Dribble said:
I've learned so much the last 24 hours, that I've had to shift my views accordingly.

I've been stating that the PL have charged us without viewing our "irrefutable evidence", but I now believe I was mistaken.

My evolved view is that since all this started in 2018, the PL have leveled their accusations at City, & City have provided our defence evidence.

It also seems both parties differed on two substantive points.

1. The PL wanted full unrestricted access to our accounts & internal records, but City said no.

2. City wanted the process to be private & confidential, but the Law Courts disagreed & said the process was of public interest.

In respect to point one, City told the PL to be specific about their allegations & we'd provide the relevant defence evidence, as opposed to the PL going on a fishing trip & poring through all our confidential internal business records to see what they could find.

In respect to point two, fearing reputational damage, City wanted to keep the investigation process private & confidential & without leaks, as we experienced with UEFA. The courts disagreed.

I now believe the PL have gone through our evidence, but were caught flat footed by the Government's Independent Regulator for English Football (IREF) announcement in February 2023.

Panicked, the PL rushed out their judgement filled with administrative errors by citing the wrong PL rule book indeces, which they embarrassingly had to correct.

City denied any wrong doing & appealed the PL's ruling, so another three members from the PL's internal 6-person independent adjudication panel were selected to review the charges, evidence & defence again.

This is where I believe myself, & most of us have been mistaken. It took the PL FIVE YEARS to come to their rushed decision in February, so I feel expert onlookers have estimated the appeals process will take at least two years to complete, but could easily stretch to four years!

The reason no information about the appeal is being circulated by the PL or City is because the whole process is private & confidential, & when it's complete, the PL appeals panel will publish its verdict on the PL's website.

The time being taken now isn't because the PL have only just asked City for our evidence, which would take years to go through. I now firmly believe they've had our evidence all along, but because of the volume of PL charge evidence & City's defence evidence that the PL's appeal panel will have to wade through, it could take nearly as long again to review the tribunal bundles.

As always, if I'm wrong I'm more than happy to hold my hands up, & in this latest FFP case against City, I believe I've been calling this wrong.

This post now hopefully adjusts my considered view accordingly.

In Conclusion:

I doubt there's any fresh charges coming, or any new defence evidence being offered. Everything surrounding this hearing has already been submitted & adjudicated on.

The PL found us guilty on 115 charges & City have appealed their verdict. Another three members from the PL's 6-person appeals panel have been selected to review the case again, & this is estimated to take between two - four years.

The PL's appeal panel decision will be final & City can't appeal their verdict to the Law Courts, UNLESS it's to do with issues relating to the actual appeals process.

We know who the PL clubs are who're desperate to get City, which honestly doesn't bode well.

HOWEVER, before anyone starts stringing up a noose, don't forget IREF! This is the spanner in the works none of the old Sky 4, the Hateful Eight, or the PL were expecting.

I'm not holding out much hope the appeals panel will find any different to the PL's original 115 charges, BUT I believe IREF & ultimately the UK Law Courts will, just as CAS did.

It's game on folks & we're in a proper scrap with an organisation run by a cartel of legacy clubs who want us gone.

They tried to strangle us at birth, so their dominance could never be challenged by new money, so just like any progressive business would, City found LEGAL ways around UEFA & the PL's self serving FFP rules.

I believe this fight will come down to UK Sovereign Law vs the PL's Rules. This is why I believe IREF is our only & best way forward. )(
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So you're saying the current hearing is actually the Appeals process?
Doesn't that presuppose a judgement has already been made by the PL?
 
Dribble said:
Clarification:

Manchester City Football Club have been Charged by the Premier League with 115 Breaches of their FFP rules.

They've selected 3 members from their internal 6 member panel made up of legal professionals to preside over the tribunal.

At this point, I'm now not sure whether City have submitted any evidence or not.

Once the PL's panel have conducted the tribunal, they'll publish their findings on the PL's website.

At this point, City can either accept in part, or in whole the panels verdict, & submit an appeal.

Now I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty well sure this is actually our situation. We've all been assuming they've found us guilty, BUT we've only been charged!

I believe the tribunal is ongoing, but because it's private & confidential, no updates are being released or leaked, as opposed to what happened with UEFA.

Now it's my hope that before the PL's panel get anywhere near a finding, that the Government's IREF comes into force.

The hope is IREF will not only be truly independent, it will also transform English football from being governed by the PL's private members club Rules, to being governed under UK Law.

Phew! I think this is where we actually stand as of today, but I'm happy to be corrected.
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I find that a decent synopsis tbh. What do you suspect the impact of the IREF arriving would be before the PL's findings, should that happen?
 
citizen_maine said:
Please don't speak for the rest of us. You've changed your view twice in the last 4 pages and have no idea what you think, never mind anyone else

:-)
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Yes, it's why my view is evolving the more I think about things.

It's a complex matter, & without any information forthcoming, we're all having to fill in the blanks, hence why I'm not claiming ITK status, I'm merely trying to connect the dots.

I'm pretty sure my last musings are nearer to the situation than previous ones & make more sense the more I think about it.

EG: I reckoned City had given the PL our evidence & found us guilty, as everyone's believed en masse, when in actual fact all the PL have done is leveled 115 charges at us.

In terms of evidence, City handed over info to UEFA in 2013, only for UEFA to use it against us, & we've not done so since, hence the non-cooperation.

There's nothing to say we've acted any different this time around, hence City have "irrefutable evidence".

Again if it's taken five years for the PL to rush out 115 charges, it stands to reason this tribunal won't be completed any time soon, not to mention an appeal if we're found guilty.

Irrespective of all that, if IREF is setup before the tribunal come to a verdict, do their finding stick, or are they rendered null & void & the case handed over to IREF?

It's all guesswork mate, & I'm man enough to hold my hands up if I get things wrong, & not scared to change my mind based on new info or further musings which make more sense.

Don't shoot me down in flames mate, I'm merely trying to make sense out of all this nonsense. :-)
 
Dribble said:
Essentially as CAS found.

@Prestwich_Blue really helped unravel this mess with his superb summary in that podcast.

To be honest, when fans see a generic list of PL rules consisting of acronyms like "Rule A 4.6.7" & it's not specific to what City are being accused of, it's a massive switch off, hence why so few understand what's happening outside of clickbait headlines.

Colin brilliantly broke it down which enabled me to finally fully understand our situation, enabling me to research it further.

My head fuckin hurts with all the reading & studying over the last 24 hours, but as they say "To be fore-warned is to be fore-armed".

Cutting to the chase, I believe if our fate is left up to the PL's Appeal Panel, we're seriously fucked!

HOWEVER, once IREF is created to oversee UK football, I honestly believe these charges will be dismissed.

It will essentially be UK Law vs the PL's private members club Rules. UK Law wins every time & football will finally be run in line with all other UK business sectors, & not for the benefit of ManUre, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spuds & poor old Everton, who are one of the five founding members of the PL, who've now been defenestrated by the other four founding member's attempts to finally stop the march of Manchester City.

It's like a fuckin episode of Stop The Pigeon, with us being the bird!

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You've made a huge contribution on here in recent days so it's no surprise your bloody head hurts!

I'm not convinced about your IREF argument yet. That is not to dismiss it but more to with not testing it for myself yet.

What is the link to the Prestwichblue podcast?

EDIT: I see you've moved on. It moves so bloody quickly on here at the moment. Still. link to the podcast would be great.
 
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