PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[malg]

Hence why I suggested we change the direction of the thread to a workable alternative to FFP/PSR.

There're been a few brilliant suggestions so far, but they've been lost in a sea of banality & pedantic bickering.

We need to sum up where we're up to, & commence the process of plotting a viable way forward for football finance.

Maybe another thread dedicated to a FFP/PSR alternative is needed to give us something else to focus on?

Can we just rename the thread '115'. Nice and simple.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

As far as I'm aware, Fordham is off the table because these types of image rights deals were flagged up to City & other clubs as being problematic in 2014/15, so by 2018 Fordham was wound up & all image rights were brought back in house.

The Mancini deal was brought up in 2013, settled, brought up again in 2018, settled again, but now it's unclear if it forms part of the current 115 breaches or not. We won't know because the hearings are being held in private.

Anything else is just speculation. This is why I believe we need to skip to the obvious conclusion that FFP/PSR isn't fit for purpose, & as such we should be setting the "What comes next" narrative.

We can't keep kicking this FFP/PSR bullshit around for possibly another 18 months until we learn our fate. We'll drive ourselves nuts doing so.

Setting the future football finance agenda is the logical mechanism to focus our energies on imo.

Who brought Mancini up in 2013? Who brought Mancini up in 2018?
Who settled it in 2013? Who settled it in 2018?

If you are referring to UEFA, the settlement was 2014 and Mancini wasn't part of the settlement.
If you are referring to CAS2 in 2020, Mancini wasn't mentioned anywhere and there certainly wasn't a settlement.

And also are you really saying there is a question as to whether Mancini forms part of the PL allegations? I'd suggest you read the opening post of this very long thread and read the PL allegation sheet under 2a. After you have done that do you have any other suggestions for who our manager might have been between 2009 and 2013 other than Mancini?

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

On image rights, the allegations referred to the panel only make mention of each of "the Premier League Rules ... requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration" for "the seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive". Now, 2010 was the year Toure arrived and one or two publications have suggested the allegations are to do with his image rights. Fordham wasn't arranged until 2013, so the seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12 are absolutely nothing to do with Fordham and it's strange that the allegations stop in 2015/6 because, even if Fordham's operations were wound down by then, Toure didn't leave until 2018, I think? Maybe it's a combination of the two. In any case, Fordham was settled with UEFA in 2014 and that is probably why the matter wasn't raised again by UEFA in 2018/9. Anyway, as the PL's 2023 allegations only refer to the years up to 2015/16 then, unless they can show "knowing concealment" which, imo, won't be easy to prove, it may all be time limited anyway.

For Mancini, as far as I know, this wasn't raised at all by UEFA in 2014 and wasn't part of the settlement. Nor was it brought up by UEFA in 2018/9, probably because it was clearly time limited even under UEFA's interpretation, as it should be for the PL as well, by the way, unless they consider the matter was "knowingly concealed" which again won't be easy to prove, imho.

As per my reply to Dribble just now, you beat me to it re Mancini.

 

[bluemanchester]

Who brought Mancini up in 2013? Who brought Mancini up in 2018?
Who settled it in 2013? Who settled it in 2018?

If you are referring to UEFA, the settlement was 2014 and Mancini wasn't part of the settlement.
If you are referring to CAS2 in 2020, Mancini wasn't mentioned anywhere and there certainly wasn't a settlement.

And also are you really saying there is a question as to whether Mancini forms part of the PL allegations? I'd suggest you read the opening post of this very long thread and read the PL allegation sheet under 2a. After you have done that do you have any other suggestions for who our manager might have been between 2009 and 2013 other than Mancini?

To keep this thread on topic;-)
So 2a is asking for the clubs contract with Mancini, no mention of any other contract with Al Jazira.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

To keep this thread on topic;-)
So 2a is asking for the clubs contract with Mancini, no mention of any other contract with Al Jazira.

Literally you could be right :)

But I have a funny feeling "contracts" might be referring to City and al Jazira...

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and

 

[bluemanchester]

Literally you could be right :)

But I have a funny feeling "contracts" might be referring to City and al Jazira...

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and

The blue mark I made highlights the word "its", which I take to mean just City. Like everything with these allegations I could be wrong;-)
But what me and you could do is argue our points for 30 or 40 pages and take pride that we personally have got this thread back on topic.
But I can only start tomorrow as I'm going to bed in 5 minutes;-)
Sorry.

 

[Dribble]

Who brought Mancini up in 2013? Who brought Mancini up in 2018?
Who settled it in 2013? Who settled it in 2018?

If you are referring to UEFA, the settlement was 2014 and Mancini wasn't part of the settlement.
If you are referring to CAS2 in 2020, Mancini wasn't mentioned anywhere and there certainly wasn't a settlement.

And also are you really saying there is a question as to whether Mancini forms part of the PL allegations? I'd suggest you read the opening post of this very long thread and read the PL allegation sheet under 2a. After you have done that do you have any other suggestions for who our manager might have been between 2009 and 2013 other than Mancini?

Mancini/Manager - Potato/Potaato \0/

 

[ChicagoBlue]

View attachment 112099
The blue mark I made highlights the word "its", which I take to mean just City. Like everything with these allegations I could be wrong;-)
But what me and you could do is argue our points for 30 or 40 pages and take pride that we personally have got this thread back on topic.
But I can only start tomorrow as I'm going to bed in 5 minutes;-)
Sorry.

I agree with you!

The contraction indicates that City were required to provide details of THE CLUB’S remuneration. Money that he may or not have made via contracts with non-CFG entities appear to be outside the scope of the request and rules.

Even if Etihad Airways had paid him $100M, it’s none of City’s business and isn’t within the scope of City’s accounts.

The assumption appears to be that City either were a party to this other lucrative contract or that it should have somehow been included. I disagree. It is separate, distinct and is akin to a player’s boot contract…none of City’s business!

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

I agree with you!

The contraction indicates that City were required to provide details of THE CLUB’S remuneration. Money that he may or not have made via contracts with non-CFG entities appear to be outside the scope of the request and rules.

Even if Etihad Airways had paid him $100M, it’s none of City’s business and isn’t within the scope of City’s accounts.

The assumption appears to be that City either were a party to this other lucrative contract or that it should have somehow been included. I disagree. It is separate, distinct and is akin to a player’s boot contract…none of City’s business!

How about if MCFC had paid Mancini direct for part of his Al Jazira contract from a MCFC account? Would that be within the scope of City's accounts in terms of how it was accounted for?

NB The Mancini contract is the least of our worries and, in the words of the boffins on here is inmaterial anyway.

 

[eyalluvitt]