PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[i kne albert davy]

The Mail was a fine upstanding supporter of Hitler in the 30s.

The Daily Worker wasn't over critical either.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

For
Fucks
Sake

Mods - can we have a sticky that explains in black and white the case is based on balance of probabilities.

The number of blues who don’t know this is staggering.

Perhaps he's a step ahead of you.

 

[KS55]

I echo these comments - although my sliver of doubt persists and is made worse by my lack of understanding of how the CAS decision was 2-1.

How could 1 of the 3 members find against CITY given the evidence/facts?? smacks of someone 'following orders' and playing to their 'masters'

People talk about the reputational impact of 'being swayed' - well if panel members find against us it will only be CITY fans that in uproar - whilst the opinion of the remainder of the entire footballing world would be up in arms if the members find for us - much more reputational risk perhaps

At CAS, the tradition is that the judges do not vote against the party that selected them. Seems bonkers but the German judge voted in favour of UEFA who selected him from the panel. Afterwards, a junior in that judges law firm wrote an article ‘proving’ we were guilty. They claimed there was no collusion between them. The article appeared in Der Spiegel.
Clear now? Ha.

 

[wolviedinho]

This is how I view city dealing with the pitfalls of the red financials:

 

[mancboy]

I echo these comments - although my sliver of doubt persists and is made worse by my lack of understanding of how the CAS decision was 2-1.

How could 1 of the 3 members find against CITY given the evidence/facts?? smacks of someone 'following orders' and playing to their 'masters'

People talk about the reputational impact of 'being swayed' - well if panel members find against us it will only be CITY fans that are in uproar - whilst the opinion of the remainder of the entire footballing world would be up in arms if the members find for us - much more of a reputational risk perhaps

As much as the red top press would have you believe the football world isnt the world , the fact that other football fans and the press isnt going to pay your bills when your professional reputation is in tatters

 

[jaiguruKun]

I just can't see that we're going to come out of a 10-week hearing smelling of roses. They'll get us for something, question is what exactly?

 

[KS55]

I have just googled this:

“Matters requiring proof must be established to the appropriate standard, namely either on the balance of probabilities or beyond reasonable doubt.
In civil cases, the appropriate standard of proof is the balance of probabilities (or, in other words, whether the tribunal of fact is satisfied that it is more likely than not that the relevant facts occurred). In criminal cases, the appropriate standard of proof is beyond reasonable doubt (or, in other words, whether the tribunal of fact can be sure that the relevant facts have been proved).”

So, does anyone know where the standard of proof lies here? To me this sounds like a civil case, criminal sentencing is not on the line here, just the application of internal rules between a ruling body and its members. Of course our owners have clearly said they have irrefutable evidence proving our innocence and I have no reason to disbelieve that hence the answer to the question is immaterial, but it is important to understand.

It is a civil dispute. The allegations are in the nature of breach of contract, ie the PL rules.

 

[KS55]

It was rejected, but it was agreed that the evidence had to be particularly cogent. Which will be the same in the 115 case if I understand properly what I am told.

For anyone who isn't clear what cogent means (and I don't mind admitting I had to look it up the first time I heard it):

"Cogent: convincing, compelling and appeals to reason".

And this: "It is well established that cogent evidence is required to justify a finding of fraud or other discreditable conduct. This is because fraud and dishonesty are both very serious allegations. Most people are not serious wrongdoers and, as such, clearer evidence is required to prove fraud or dishonesty than (for example) negligence or innocence".

I wish some blues would get this into their heads. Balance of probabilities with high requirement for standard of proof ie cogency.

 

[Grassland Blue]

If we Win we should pay for screens at the only two teams in the Premier League who cant afford them.

Ah, but when their new stadia have been built they will have the best tellys in the league, world class, best in der werld etc. etc.

 

[BerkshireBlue]

I particularly enjoyed the comment from the Liverpool fan who is sure we’re fucked because UEFA have sent all their ‘evidence’ to the Premier League!!

Surely not all of the A4 one side print out?

 

[chesterbells]

It was rejected, but it was agreed that the evidence had to be particularly cogent. Which will be the same in the 115 case if I understand properly what I am told.

For anyone who isn't clear what cogent means (and I don't mind admitting I had to look it up the first time I heard it):

"Cogent: convincing, compelling and appeals to reason".

And this: "It is well established that cogent evidence is required to justify a finding of fraud or other discreditable conduct. This is because fraud and dishonesty are both very serious allegations. Most people are not serious wrongdoers and, as such, clearer evidence is required to prove fraud or dishonesty than (for example) negligence or innocence".

Useful post (for me anyway), thanks

 

[Grassland Blue]

Trafford Council….do they have roofers?

Moonlighting at a guess.
(Keep an eye open for dodgy cash payments......)

 

[KS55]

The Cancelo and PL Charges and Quiet thread have merged into a singularity. This is dangerous shit. Run people. Save yourselves. Runnnnn!

Some years ago, ther was a Japanese scientist dealing with a small amount of fissionable material who moved one container a bit too close to another. Bang, Fire, fire.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

I just can't see that we're going to come out of a 10-week hearing smelling of roses. They'll get us for something, question is what exactly?

Start with 'non cooperation'
.....ie City protecting our commercially sensitive and confidential information.

That's £10 million please !!

 

[KS55]

Whoever is on this panel is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have to nail City to a door to keep the court of public opinion in check which in the same time results in them accusing a head of state of mass industrial fraud. All hell will break lose which ever way it goes, the premier league has dropped a right bollock here.

I doubt if the panel consider the public reaction for more than 20 seconds.

 

[lancs blue]

I just can't see that we're going to come out of a 10-week hearing smelling of roses. They'll get us for something, question is what exactly?

FFS, they've been investigating us since 2018, if they had fireprooof evidence of anything it would all have been sorted by now.

 

[KS55]

Surely not all of the A4 one side print out?

The funniest thing at CAS apparently was our lawyers’ shocked disbelief at UEFA’s total lack of evidence. Remember UEFA had said publicly that they had a smoking gun document and were not relying on the emails.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

For
Fucks
Sake

Mods - can we have a sticky that explains in black and white the case is based on balance of probabilities.

The number of blues who don’t know this is staggering.

Agree.

@Chris in London tried his best with this

115 Charges - FAQs

Mods, this has been a request on and off in the 115 Charges thread for some time. Feel free to move but I thought it might warrant a thread of its own. The idea here is that the information is essentially factual with very little/no opinion thrown into the mix. There are also some significant...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Just bumping this thread as very topical again and particularly the early pages before sidetracked.

 

[CC1]

For
Fucks
Sake

Mods - can we have a sticky that explains in black and white the case is based on balance of probabilities.

The number of blues who don’t know this is staggering.

Ok smart arse. I’ll delete the post