PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Champions again in 2012]

On the morning of the CAS verdict, I was driving so had Talkshite on
It was a woman presenter along with two males (sure they were former footballers) and the build up to 9am, when the decision was officially released, was all about "what next for City when they're banned from Europe" etc

They went to the reporter outside CAS who spoke of the decision that City had been successful in its appeal, cleared of all the major charges and had the non cooperation fine reduced substantially

They went back to the studio and it was silence. They had no idea what to do next as the show had been scripted for City's guilt

Let's hope that history will repeat itself. I won't be listening to talkshite. I stopped that 8 years ago and my mental health is much better for it

 

[eastmanc]

Reading Roans article made me feel quite down to be honest.

Why it's only his take and we all know what that is. Predictable crap.

 

[Champions again in 2012]

Seems very arbitrary to me.

Me too but it really shouldn’t be though…. Should it?

 

[slbsn]

No, it is not.

You may have understood whatever the difference you know, but in your abruptness of responding and 'shooting down' discussion, it ended up broadbrushed.

As I said above, zero issue with you getting things wrong. It is with the 'stefan said' posters that have taken the same from it and continue to run with it despite now 3 events otherwise.

There is another observation I was going to point out, but in fairness wrong timing and context and could be taken poorly just now so will come back to it.

Simply a lie. But whatever. If only there was a way to search posts or tweets to find confirmation that I said clubs couldn't appeal an IC... go for it.

 

[nmc]

People far more intelligent than me have consistently asserted on this Forum that without a smoking gun, or some damning evidence that none of us knew existed, than City will be exonerated of all the major charges.

However I've never seen that viewpoint articulated in the mainstream media so I remain convinced that a "Not Guilty" verdict will be greeted with disappointment, dismay, mass hysteria and a sense that we exploited a loophole.

Dan Roan definitely has a hardon this morning - getting very giddy and doesn’t seem to think the legal hurdles are much of an issue - he also predictively side steps the fact we were cleared by CAS of similar charges. Still wondering why he doesn’t seem to think United’s financial woes aren’t even remotely relevant.

 

[bluemoon32]

Yesterday

all our 115 troubles seemed so far away....

 

[Coatigan]

Simply a lie. But whatever. If only there was a way to search posts or tweets to find confirmation that I said clubs couldn't appeal an IC... go for it

The discussions from over a year ago, that left so many posters claiming 'stefan said no appeals'. Because that is what you resolutely claimed. And were just as dismissive as you are now.

It is not worth my time tbh, I'll point out what has happened since and that's that.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

I don't see how they could do that, although I can agree they will be using it to try to drum up fan support for a super league. And they will fail.

Because they will be confusing rabid fan rivalry with the passionate hate there is for a super league. Why? Because they don't understand football and football fans, imho.

The Govt will prevent a Super League breakaway.

 

[Father Paul]

I honestly don't care about the charges - it seems to me that lots of other clubs have been fined and it's almost become the norm. Forest, Everton, Leicester have been fined recently. Us, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs for trying to form a super league were fined. Chelsea have been fined and had transfer bans. United had a fine for fair play breaches. Liverpool fined for breaking into our IT systems and tapping players up. Newcastle are tied up in knots with a wealthy owner yet having to sell players.

Someone, somewhere thinks this is a really good idea. However, last season we saw random points deductions overturned a couple of weeks later and those could easily have decided who went down. Should Everton have a 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 point deduction? Who knows but if I was a ST there I would feel cheated that what I saw on the pitch wasn't reflected in the league table.

Football is magic. Take away the magic and it loses everything doesn't it. If we score 1 more goal than the opposition on the pitch I expect to see the league table reflect that. If it doesn't, I can't 'believe' in it anymore. If we are relegated or have titles took off us then it will kill football. I've not heard any United, or Liverpool fan say they want the PL titles that we won as, despite the banter, we all know the best team wins the league.

I suspect we've followed the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law. This doesn't make us guilty though, but it will be portrayed that way even if we are 110% exonerated. I cannot believe that our owners would be willing to break the law and find lots of other international companies and Directors who would be complicit in that. The PL have been happy to have clubs run as 'international companies' when it suits, but they don't seem happy to have international companies run football clubs as international companies. They caused this with the PL breakaway 30 years ago I'm afraid. Football clubs aren't businesses, they are cultural artifacts as important as any painting, cathedral or piece of music in this country.

Ultimately, the PL and FA may think they are being clever dishing out these fines but one day they will realise that the magic of the sport has gone.

Dan Roan is a 1st class ****, as shown when the helicopter with the Leicester City owner in it went down.

Roan if your reading this, what you were recorded saying that night proved you were a ****.

What was it Roan said after this tragedy? I don't seem to recall anything.

 

[slbsn]

The discussions from over a year ago, that left so many posters claiming 'stefan said no appeals'. Because that is what you resolutely claimed. And were just as dismissive as you are now.

It is not worth my time tbh, I'll point out what has happened since and that's that.

Worth my time. Here is the post from 8 Feb (the day of charge I think) - crystal clear.

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

No, it doesn't. All the PL have to show is that our accounts weren't what we said they were (still a high burden) but the rest of the stuff - motive, mens rea, etc - isn't relevant (for them). It may be relevant in other proceedings The allegation appears to be that the club has acted in bad...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

More detail here from 12 March:

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Bless you. If I said people giving evidence in English I didn’t mean to but the likelihood is that will be the case.But it’s a fact that the panel almost certainly will have English as their first language. UEFA are governed by Swiss Law the PL arent. Also it’s worth noting that CAS carried...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Reiterated in July

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

All owned by Murdoch, aren’t they? Including Sky Sport. All owned by Murdoch, yeah, but he sold off Sky in 2018.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Arbitration - no appeal except in limited circumstances
IC - PL appeal board
PL appeal board - only Rule X arbitration challenge
Rule X challenge - High Court very limited circumstances on admin matters.

That will suffice for now but feel free to search all of them if you want to keep making it up

 

[Salford_Blue]

If we'd paid everyone off we wouldn't have been charged

People far more intelligent than me have consistently asserted on this Forum that without a smoking gun, or some damning evidence that none of us knew existed, than City will be exonerated of all the major charges.

However I've never seen that viewpoint articulated in the mainstream media so I remain convinced that a "Not Guilty" verdict will be greeted with disappointment, dismay, mass hysteria and a sense that we exploited a loophole.

And that is the crux of all this at it's most basic level; for every one article (if there is even one) from a prominent UK media outlet saying City have nothing to worry about or will be exonerated, I could easily find you 200+ articles the other way.

At this stage, as we all know they are only charges/allegations and no one knows more or less than anyone else.

But the use of one myopic, fixated narrative by major media outlets online/TV/papers has lead the masses to assume guilt.

 

[Coatigan]

Worth my time. Here is the post from 8 Feb (the day of charge I think) - crystal clear.

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

No, it doesn't. All the PL have to show is that our accounts weren't what we said they were (still a high burden) but the rest of the stuff - motive, mens rea, etc - isn't relevant (for them). It may be relevant in other proceedings The allegation appears to be that the club has acted in bad...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

More detail here from 12 March:

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Bless you. If I said people giving evidence in English I didn’t mean to but the likelihood is that will be the case.But it’s a fact that the panel almost certainly will have English as their first language. UEFA are governed by Swiss Law the PL arent. Also it’s worth noting that CAS carried...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Arbitration - no appeal except in limited circumstances
IC - PL appeal board
PL appeal board - only Rule X arbitration challenge
Rule X challenge - High Court very limited circumstances on admin matters.

That will suffice for now but feel free to search all of them if you want to keep making it up

Fair enough, and glad you found that.

If I find the time, will search for the ones I am thinking of, and if indeed I took it wrong, fully on me then.

The fact that so many others have taken it the same way, and 'stefan said no appeals' is now a thing, I'd suggest is more than me getting the wrong end of it. But if that's all it is, then my apologies.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

And that is the crux of all this at it's most basic level; for every one article (if there is even one) from a prominent UK media outlet saying City have nothing to worry about or will be exonerated, I could easily find you 200+ articles the other way.

At this stage, as we all know they are only charges/allegations and no one knows more or less than anyone else.

But the use of one myopic, fixated narrative by major media outlets online/TV/papers has lead the masses to assume guilt.

Vaguely reminiscent of the build up to the 50th anniversary of Munich and then the sense of anti climax when the City fans didn't do anything wrong.

 

[slbsn]

Fair enough, and glad you found that.

If I find the time, will search for the ones I am thinking of, and if indeed I took it wrong, fully on me then.

The fact that so many others have taken it the same way, and 'stefan said no appeals' is now a thing, I'd suggest is more than me getting the wrong end of it. But if that's all it is, then my apologies.

Cheers. It will be no appeals to the outside courts - there was a lot of nonsense spoken about that. It is almost impossible to get to the High Court for the substantive assessment.

PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Good words but this is going to drag on for some months. Will players still want to sign whilst we have this cloud over us? If they don't then fuck 'em.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

 

[Gordyola]

Just wondering how often the PL hold their meetings ( monthly, quarterly,annually), and do the chairmen or other very senior managers from the 20 clubs attend ? If so, how can any City representative, stand being on the room with these scheming vipers, who he/she knows are trying to destroy us ?

Shaking hands whilst whistling champions again ole ole..... Getting lots of references into conversations like "four in a row" everyone whilst getting the obligatory picture taken Id love it

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not the thread or time to be arguing on fellas. Solidarity is needed.

 

[halfcenturyup]

The discussions from over a year ago, that left so many posters claiming 'stefan said no appeals'. Because that is what you resolutely claimed. And were just as dismissive as you are now.

It is not worth my time tbh, I'll point out what has happened since and that's that.

Can we at least agree now that the appeals process is:

Disciplinary panel > Appeals board > Arbitration tribunal > Courts.

At each stage the grounds to appeal to the next step are reduced:

Appeals boards have to be set up whatever the appeal, but difficult (not impossible) to overturn a finding of fact. City likely to appeal against any sanction if one is imposed, I would imagine. Why not? Will be interesting to see if the PL appeals if City are successful and in what areas.

Arbitration tribunal has limited jurisdictional grounds so may refuse a tribunal hearing, but I am sure expensive lawyers can work something out.

A high court appeal has very limited grounds under English law and the PL rules, which makes it virtually (but not completely) impossible.

And, as we all know, there is no possibility of an appeal to CAS in the PL rules.

I think that is it. More or less.

** Waits to be blasted **

 

[PistonBlue]

Just wondering how often the PL hold their meetings ( monthly, quarterly,annually), and do the chairmen or other very senior managers from the 20 clubs attend ? If so, how can any City representative, stand being on the room with these scheming vipers, who he/she knows are trying to destroy us ?

I'd imagine being the Champions for four years running makes that task slightly easier, enjoyable even.

 

[Gundoggin]

The one thing crystal clear in this total embarrassment for the PL is that the rags have been the worst run football club in the world and is massively in debt to the tune of nearly £1 billion and massively under performing on the pitch . The absolute hypocrisy here tell us and anyone else with half a brain what really is going on . THE corruption within the PL exposed and the corruption within the gravy train media fully exposed .
Likkle old Citeh about to blow everything open who would have thunk that 15 years ago ?
CTID :)

 

[M18CTID]

Not really city related but given united's losses over 3 years and the seemingly generous exemptions that they have been allowed to claim, who decides what exemptions will / will not be permitted. How do clubs get to compare and contrast what one group has been permitted and another declined eg what United have been allowed versus what Everton were declined, bearing in mind Everton have a shiny new stadium whilst United have the 3rd highest waterfall in the uk when we have heavy rain.

Apologies if wrong thread

If it's things like Covid allowances, then whether we like it or not United are going to get more of an allowance than most or all the clubs in the league due to their lost match day revenue during the pandemic being higher than pretty much everyone else's. That said, I don't know the figures involved compared to other clubs and whether they've been given more of an allowance than they should. I'm sure the number crunchers would be able to make a fair assessment on that if they had the figures for every club in front of them.

On the face of it, United's latest losses and the 3-year rolling figure of losses look pretty grim reading and you'd have to think that they would be sailing close to the wind with regards PSR, even when allowances are taken into account.

What can't be denied by anybody is that, given the resources at their disposal and their performances on the pitch, they've been the worst run club in the league for fucking years now. How can they be so shit despite spending so much? I'd say that's worthy of an investigation in itself!