Player thread: Aleksandar Kolarov (2014/15)

[oakiecokie]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

p.a. so if you defend as a team and he is part of the team does he get no credit at all ? Strange to discredit your own argument !

What the fuck has credit got to do with anything? He's a poor defender but not a bad footballer, how does that discredit my argument? You seem to be clutching at straws now mate.

I'll help you out if you like as you don't seem to be able to explain what attributes would make him good at defending?

Which of these attributes does Kolarov excel at?

a) Decision making as to when to close a player down
b) Closing player down quickly & at pace
c) Angle of approach when closing player down
d) Body shape when defending against an opposition player
e) Timing of tackle
f) Covering your centre backs (if a full back)
g) Awareness of who's running in behind you
h) Blocking crosses or shots

These are the main attributes required to be good at defending, which is actual fact, not just conjecture or my opinion. I'd also like to add these which are less important & more my opinion than anything else:

i) Quick change of pace
j) Being able to turn on a sixpence
k) Not bottling out of 50-50's

If you don't want a sensible discussion about this, then please feel free to pick one bit out of my comments to discredit my argument. If you want a sensible discussion & not an I think he's good cos he's my bestest player & I love him so leave him alone you bully discussion, then which of the above do you think he's good at?

For me all of the above are exactly what makes him a poor defender as he is weak in all of the areas mentioned above.

Firstly, I know what makes a good defender. I have played football to a decent level for 40 years so think I might have an idea, but thanks for pointing out some of the attributes, which in my opinion Kolarov does possess and you obviously do not. By the way you forgot the most important thing any player, not just a defender needs to be able to do well to be a good defender and that is the ability to retain a football ! If you've got the ball the opposition can't score, this is why we defend well as a team because they are all very good in possession from 1 to 11. Kolarov possesses excellent technique and ball skill,very important in my opinion. obviously you dont think he is the bestest player ever and don't love him. I think he is a very good player, as are pretty much all of our players, who deserves our support rather than being slagged by the numbnuts for the whole game every time he plays, despite many, many good games and effective contributions to our success over the last five years. It would be nice to think that by making these points it might mske some people think twice about how they conduct themselves at the games. On here it is different and you are more than entitled to your opinion like everyone else.

Sunday fucking leagues don`t count !!!!!

 

[nwanda]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

Don't shoot the messenger but guy at work who is quite well connected at Everton said Baines did not play last night due to a bid being made and the club in question did not want him cup tied.

 

[Maly]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

No I'm not his agent ! Daft comment.

Another daft comment is calling people ungrateful clueless numbnuts when their opinion differs from yours

No its not. Ungrateful because they are never happy despite the success we have had. Clueless because they have limited knowledge of football and numbnuts because they spend the whole game criticising individual players rather than supporting the team.

You don't half take some shite Pete. Can you never admit when you're in the wrong?

You specifically aimed ungrateful, clueless numbnut at me, so let me point something out to you. I'm extremely happy about the success we've had, so therefore I'm not ungrateful. Clueless because I have limited knowledge about football? How the fuck do you know anything about me, what football qualifications I have, if I've ever played the game at any level, if I've coached at any level, so what makes you say I have limited knowledge about football? Numbnut? I'll tell you right now, I'm one of the never boo a blue brigade so you my friend are talking out of your arse.

It was a daft comment you made.

 

[oakiecokie]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

Another daft comment is calling people ungrateful clueless numbnuts when their opinion differs from yours

No its not. Ungrateful because they are never happy despite the success we have had. Clueless because they have limited knowledge of football and numbnuts because they spend the whole game criticising individual players rather than supporting the team.

You don't half take some shite Pete. Can you never admit when you're in the wrong?

You specifically aimed ungrateful, clueless numbnut at me, so let me point something out to you. I'm extremely happy about the success we've had, so therefore I'm not ungrateful. Clueless because I have limited knowledge about football? How the fuck do you know anything about me, what football qualifications I have, if I've ever played the game at any level, if I've coached at any level, so what makes you say I have limited knowledge about football? Numbnut? I'll tell you right now, I'm one of the never boo a blue brigade so you my friend are talking out of your arse.

It was a daft comment you made.

Well he claims he has played 40 years of football at a decent level. ;)

 

[Maly]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

p.a. so if you defend as a team and he is part of the team does he get no credit at all ? Strange to discredit your own argument !

What the fuck has credit got to do with anything? He's a poor defender but not a bad footballer, how does that discredit my argument? You seem to be clutching at straws now mate.

I'll help you out if you like as you don't seem to be able to explain what attributes would make him good at defending?

Which of these attributes does Kolarov excel at?

a) Decision making as to when to close a player down
b) Closing player down quickly & at pace
c) Angle of approach when closing player down
d) Body shape when defending against an opposition player
e) Timing of tackle
f) Covering your centre backs (if a full back)
g) Awareness of who's running in behind you
h) Blocking crosses or shots

These are the main attributes required to be good at defending, which is actual fact, not just conjecture or my opinion. I'd also like to add these which are less important & more my opinion than anything else:

i) Quick change of pace
j) Being able to turn on a sixpence
k) Not bottling out of 50-50's

If you don't want a sensible discussion about this, then please feel free to pick one bit out of my comments to discredit my argument. If you want a sensible discussion & not an I think he's good cos he's my bestest player & I love him so leave him alone you bully discussion, then which of the above do you think he's good at?

For me all of the above are exactly what makes him a poor defender as he is weak in all of the areas mentioned above.

Firstly, I know what makes a good defender. I have played football to a decent level for 40 years so think I might have an idea, but thanks for pointing out some of the attributes, which in my opinion Kolarov does possess and you obviously do not. By the way you forgot the most important thing any player, not just a defender needs to be able to do well to be a good defender and that is the ability to retain a football ! If you've got the ball the opposition can't score, this is why we defend well as a team because they are all very good in possession from 1 to 11. Kolarov possesses excellent technique and ball skill,very important in my opinion. obviously you dont think he is the bestest player ever and don't love him. I think he is a very good player, as are pretty much all of our players, who deserves our support rather than being slagged by the numbnuts for the whole game every time he plays, despite many, many good games and effective contributions to our success over the last five years. It would be nice to think that by making these points it might mske some people think twice about how they conduct themselves at the games. On here it is different and you are more than entitled to your opinion like everyone else.

If you know what makes a good defender, then why did you have to wait for me to post what attributes make a good defender, after a number of posters had asked you to do so, to say he's good at all of the areas.

If you honestly think he has all of the above attributes, then me & you have a completely different understanding of football, which is fine, but I'd suggest you watch Kolarov very closely next game he plays, with the attributes mentioned in mind & see if he actually does all of those things well.

With regards to ball retention......I'd say that's crap. Defending as a team may well be about ball retention, but by your reckoning, that makes Lescott poor defensively as his ball retention was poor. Me, I think Lescott is a very good defender, but lacks other attributes which would make him fit into our current team & system. Kolarov does have not bad technique & ball skills, but this has nothing at all to do with defensive attributes, which is what I've specifically highlighted.

He has contributed over the past 5 years, I totally agree, as I have done previously, but you seem blinded by your love for him that you can't see that he isn't good at the defensive side of the game. I appreciate that he has other attributes which add to the team going forwards, but that was never something I've questioned. Teams that cause us problems tend to attack down their right hand side....why do you think that is? (Burnley is a cracking recent example, but please don't think I'm blaming our Burnley performance soley on Kolarov).

Totally agree that booing players is totally unacceptable. There's actually an FA 'experiment' which shows what negative effects abusing players/booing players has. It impacts not only mentally, but physically on the player who is getting abuse including strength believe it or not.

Don't think we'll ever agree on Alex being good/not good at the defensive side of the game, but hey ho, that's football.

 

[cleavers]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

Yes he could be better defensively, he has proved that. For that though you have to forgo much of his attacking adventure.

The fact that you feel the need to belittle those for defending Kolarov a two time PL winner and integral part of our very successful team is a little bit bemusing.

Perhaps you feel the best way to get a low in confidence returning from injury player back to his best is to moan, groan and slag him off on the Internet, I don't.

Certainly could.

As for the rest of your post, all I have done is comment that he had a shite game against Wednesday (a lower half championship side), because he did, and it certainly wasn't just the goal, its was almost everything he touched. He even thought it better to have an argument with the crowd rather than actually try and defend.

If I want to comment on the internet on a players performance I will, without your permission, especially when the player can't be arsed doing his main job, it was nothing to do with returning from injury, or lacking in confidence either, because he was quick enough going away from our goal, just couldn't be bothered being in the right place when we needed to defend.

I've praised him plenty when he was worthy of it, so I'll call it when he's shite as well, thanks all the same.

 

[Maly]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

Kolarov is getting a hard time of it of late. Some going as far as to suggest he's not fit to wear the shirt. I would ask those saying such things to cast their mind back just 12 months, he was one of our most consistant and important pergormers from Christmas last season.

Clichy looked like he'd never played before.

I hear the same arguements time and time again, with absolutely no substance to them. Poor defensively? He was part of the Mancini defence that was very tight. Gave away very little. Mancini and Pellegrini have both constantly picked him.

Yes, he's in a poor run of form, against Burnley he was woeful, as were most against Burnley.

I have defended Kolarov many times, I've never really heard anyone anage to highlight any real incident that lead to a goal. Above someone is talking about Stoke, Fernandinho and Hart were both far more to blame. Hart especially. As a last man defender your job is to orce a player wide, especially one so much fatser than you are. Diouf was so wide when he scored I couldn't believe it.

This thread was quite when he created several chances against Palace. Whilst keeping their dangerous wingers quiet.

Kolarov is a very useful member of teh squad. He's easy to boo, as is Dzeko. Milner was every bit as poor as Kolarov Sunday first half. Didn't/doon't hear groans when he simply twats it out of play.

Kolarov tries the hardest of balls, he tries to put them on a plate for a one touch finish. This is not an exact science and he can not be expected to this more than 2 or 3 times a game. His passing is very under rated. Yes he can be often out of postition. As can Zaba, but we as a team cope. The full backs are often the widest on the pitch, often furthest from our own goal. It goes without saying that if play breaks down they will be out of postition.

This escapes many, including the moron sitting behind me that thinks shoooot is the anser to everything and Ya Ya is a waste of space.

I really have to disagree with the bits in bold. Firstly, under Mancini we were a defensive unit starting from the front, you defend as a team not as individuals. Yes we were tight under Mancini, but I'd suggest that this was because of the way we were set up as a team, not because Kolarov is a great defender. Hence the reason why you get certain managers whose teams concede very little regardless of the club they're at or the players they have at their disposal. Much the same as some managers have teams who score loads & concede loads (Twitcher for instance). So for me, your argument doesn't hold water when saying Kolarov is a great defender because he played in a team that didn't concede many. This was Mancini's doing. To prove further, under Hughes we conceded loads, Mancini came in & with the same players we stopped conceding.

I'm still to hear anybody explain which attributes Kolarov has which make him a great defender.

There have been a number of goals which he has been a fault for, but so has Kompany, Zabba, MDM etc, which happens, that's football. However, Kompany, Zabba & MDM are superb defenders as they have the right attributes. Kolarov doesn't, simple as that. Now I'm not saying he's a bad player, but seriously, anybody who thinks he's a great DEFENDER has a completely different understanding of football to me.

If somebody.......anybody can tell me why they think he's a great defender, I'd honesty love to hear their reasons & saying because we don't concede many as a team really doesn't wash as you defend as a team in football with the Manager determining how the team defends. What the front players to defensively impacts on the midfield, which impacts on the defence.

Well, it seems you don't actually disagree. If in a defensive system you agree Kolarov is a decent defender. I have never once suggested Kolarov to be a 'great defender'. As I don't believe him to be a great defender.

He is a decent defender, much better than other defenders with his attacking intent. Could he be a better defender whilst being as effective going forwards? I doubt it. If he were he'd be just about the best left back in the World.

So yes, he could be a better defender, for him to be a better defender we have two options, 1, do away with Pellegrini's front foot attacking style that requires the full backs to give width or 2, 2, sack Pellegrini and bring in someone more defensive.

As I see it Pellegrini uses Kolarov in games where attacking is the main concern, and Clichy for a more defensive option. I see this as the best of both Worlds.

Just for kicks, name me one left back from the World Cup that showed that they were capable of Kolarov's attacking and Clichy's defending.

Ashley Cole is too old.

I do disagree. I'll try to clarify. As a team (more under Mancini than Peller's) we were a very very good defensive unit. I don't agree that Kolarov is a decent defender. Decent player, yes, decent defender no. I also disagree that he would have to alter his attacking play to improve his defensive game.

I'm not suggesting that him bombing up the wing & not being able to get back in time to shore up the defence is an issue as it's impossible to run quicker than the ball. I'm suggesting that he doesn't do the basics of defending well. There is a big difference.

As for the World Cup.....god knows. I struggle to remember what happened last week never mind 6 months ago!!! However, I would suggest that Philip Lahm, David Alba, Marcelo & Jordi Alba are all as good going forwards & all better defensively.

 

[peter.evans]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

Another daft comment is calling people ungrateful clueless numbnuts when their opinion differs from yours

No its not. Ungrateful because they are never happy despite the success we have had. Clueless because they have limited knowledge of football and numbnuts because they spend the whole game criticising individual players rather than supporting the team.

You don't half take some shite Pete. Can you never admit when you're in the wrong?

You specifically aimed ungrateful, clueless numbnut at me, so let me point something out to you. I'm extremely happy about the success we've had, so therefore I'm not ungrateful. Clueless because I have limited knowledge about football? How the fuck do you know anything about me, what football qualifications I have, if I've ever played the game at any level, if I've coached at any level, so what makes you say I have limited knowledge about football? Numbnut? I'll tell you right now, I'm one of the never boo a blue brigade so you my friend are talking out of your arse.

It was a daft comment you made.

Maly, definitely not aimed at you at all, nothing personal ! But definitely aimed at those who are never happy, spend all the game destroying our own players and criticise all the time. There were two sat behind me on sunday !! You may well have outstanding knowledge of the game, it is all about opinions so why should I admit to being wrong about anything for having a different opinion ? Opinins are neither right or wrong, purely opinions !

 

[peter.evans]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

What the fuck has credit got to do with anything? He's a poor defender but not a bad footballer, how does that discredit my argument? You seem to be clutching at straws now mate.

I'll help you out if you like as you don't seem to be able to explain what attributes would make him good at defending?

Which of these attributes does Kolarov excel at?

a) Decision making as to when to close a player down
b) Closing player down quickly & at pace
c) Angle of approach when closing player down
d) Body shape when defending against an opposition player
e) Timing of tackle
f) Covering your centre backs (if a full back)
g) Awareness of who's running in behind you
h) Blocking crosses or shots

These are the main attributes required to be good at defending, which is actual fact, not just conjecture or my opinion. I'd also like to add these which are less important & more my opinion than anything else:

i) Quick change of pace
j) Being able to turn on a sixpence
k) Not bottling out of 50-50's

If you don't want a sensible discussion about this, then please feel free to pick one bit out of my comments to discredit my argument. If you want a sensible discussion & not an I think he's good cos he's my bestest player & I love him so leave him alone you bully discussion, then which of the above do you think he's good at?

For me all of the above are exactly what makes him a poor defender as he is weak in all of the areas mentioned above.

Firstly, I know what makes a good defender. I have played football to a decent level for 40 years so think I might have an idea, but thanks for pointing out some of the attributes, which in my opinion Kolarov does possess and you obviously do not. By the way you forgot the most important thing any player, not just a defender needs to be able to do well to be a good defender and that is the ability to retain a football ! If you've got the ball the opposition can't score, this is why we defend well as a team because they are all very good in possession from 1 to 11. Kolarov possesses excellent technique and ball skill,very important in my opinion. obviously you dont think he is the bestest player ever and don't love him. I think he is a very good player, as are pretty much all of our players, who deserves our support rather than being slagged by the numbnuts for the whole game every time he plays, despite many, many good games and effective contributions to our success over the last five years. It would be nice to think that by making these points it might mske some people think twice about how they conduct themselves at the games. On here it is different and you are more than entitled to your opinion like everyone else.

If you know what makes a good defender, then why did you have to wait for me to post what attributes make a good defender, after a number of posters had asked you to do so, to say he's good at all of the areas.

If you honestly think he has all of the above attributes, then me & you have a completely different understanding of football, which is fine, but I'd suggest you watch Kolarov very closely next game he plays, with the attributes mentioned in mind & see if he actually does all of those things well.

With regards to ball retention......I'd say that's crap. Defending as a team may well be about ball retention, but by your reckoning, that makes Lescott poor defensively as his ball retention was poor. Me, I think Lescott is a very good defender, but lacks other attributes which would make him fit into our current team & system. Kolarov does have not bad technique & ball skills, but this has nothing at all to do with defensive attributes, which is what I've specifically highlighted.

He has contributed over the past 5 years, I totally agree, as I have done previously, but you seem blinded by your love for him that you can't see that he isn't good at the defensive side of the game. I appreciate that he has other attributes which add to the team going forwards, but that was never something I've questioned. Teams that cause us problems tend to attack down their right hand side....why do you think that is? (Burnley is a cracking recent example, but please don't think I'm blaming our Burnley performance soley on Kolarov).

Totally agree that booing players is totally unacceptable. There's actually an FA 'experiment' which shows what negative effects abusing players/booing players has. It impacts not only mentally, but physically on the player who is getting abuse including strength believe it or not.

Don't think we'll ever agree on Alex being good/not good at the defensive side of the game, but hey ho, that's football.

So what exactly is 'crap' ? All I said was it is, in my opinion, the most important aspect of defending ! You even say yourself defending as a team is about ball retention ! Those that do it better than others tend to play in the most successful teams, you know the likes of Brazil, Holland, AC Milan, Barcelona, Germany, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and even our own club, you know the ones that win all the trophies ! Lescott could retain the ball but not to the required standard and had other defensive attributes, which I never said were not important I said ball retention was the MOST important attribute, along with a good football brain. So those who have been unable to do it to the standard required have been shipped out over the years, Richards, Lescott, etc,etc and they go off and play at their level of ability, which is not the successful trophy winning level. Kolarov is a capable defender with good qualities and an outstanding attacking full back, which suits our style of play. Some people like thud and blunder football, can't stand the tikki tacka stuff, etc, that's up to them. I wouldnt watch lower league English football if you paid me, but it's a free world !

 

[Maly]

Re: Aleks Kolarov - take a bow

No its not. Ungrateful because they are never happy despite the success we have had. Clueless because they have limited knowledge of football and numbnuts because they spend the whole game criticising individual players rather than supporting the team.

You don't half take some shite Pete. Can you never admit when you're in the wrong?

You specifically aimed ungrateful, clueless numbnut at me, so let me point something out to you. I'm extremely happy about the success we've had, so therefore I'm not ungrateful. Clueless because I have limited knowledge about football? How the fuck do you know anything about me, what football qualifications I have, if I've ever played the game at any level, if I've coached at any level, so what makes you say I have limited knowledge about football? Numbnut? I'll tell you right now, I'm one of the never boo a blue brigade so you my friend are talking out of your arse.

It was a daft comment you made.

Maly, definitely not aimed at you at all, nothing personal ! But definitely aimed at those who are never happy, spend all the game destroying our own players and criticise all the time. There were two sat behind me on sunday !! You may well have outstanding knowledge of the game, it is all about opinions so why should I admit to being wrong about anything for having a different opinion ? Opinins are neither right or wrong, purely opinions !

Fair paly bud.

I meant you being wrong about it not being a daft comment saying I'm another ungrateful clueless numbnut, which came across as being aimed at me originally. If it wasn't, fair enough as I agree, booing players at the game hinders them, not helps them.

Looks like we agree on something!!!!! ;)
Never boo a blue