Political relations between UK-EU

[Saddleworth2]

"If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart." Nelson Mandela

Action without vision is only passing time, vision without action is merely day dreaming, but vision (documented in a target operating model) with action can change the world.
Nelson Mandela

 

[mcfc1632]

Taking Johnson apart in the FT...

In the FT - FFS

About as impartial as the Express

Speaks volumes

 

[mcfc1632]

I'm not sure what question you are answering. If its 'how would you run a traditional large change programme' then yes what you have documented is pretty reasonable. The development of a target operating model 'up front' is crucial as you need to know what the fuck it is you are attempting to deliver.

If the question is, how would you of used Programme management disciplines to deliver Brexit, then thats a different question. What was needed up front to develop a TOM would have been difficult and protracted. A better way of doing it would have been to form a small, senior, empowered, cross party steering group to consider the options and whip their respective parties into line. Perhaps with some discussion, some elements of a solution could have been found to appease Scotland and built a better solution to NI but who knows?

I cant help feeling that whatever the option put forward, it would have been too aligned to the EU for half the stakeholders and not aligned enough for the other half. A year or even 18 months of painful option wrangling and trying to get as many on side as possible would have made everything that followed a great deal easier.

I have significant doubts though that May/Corbyn would have been capable of leading such an activity, particularly considering the right wing of her party and various terrorists. After all, if you remember there was a process through HOC to vote on options and look how that turned out. So to make it work and achieve an operating model that the country could get behind required a very different type of politics than the incumbents were capable of providing leadership for.

In you response to Vic, you made all of that sound straightforward but I think it was anything but and explains why so much has been kicked down the road. Thoughts?

Once established though the workstreams are a great deal easier as they have a good handle on scope and what it is they are setting out to achieve.

One element which has been particularly badly done is readiness testing. In the past I have set up a matrix of workstreams on programmes both 'vertical' ones with their own scope of work and then 'horizontal' ones that offer a 'shared service' to each of the vertical workstreams. Typically this would include business readiness testing which would ensure all vertical workstreams are independently assessed before they can be given a go decision.

Big subject but all theoretical and wont change an atom.

Well - TBF - I was just being generous and skipped over the obvious limitations of the question that he asked

But now you ask - Vic seemed to be asking the question:

"If you (me personally) are placed in the position of managing a major transformation/change programme - and no matter what the goals of the client were - you could manage it in a way to achieve just whatever the fuck you want............"

Now - you know that is not how things work. The people managing the programmes do not just 'do what the fuck they want' because of their personal agendas.

So - I was just being polite and answered the question that he perhaps should have been asking

 

[Vic]

Well - TBF - I was just being generous and skipped over the obvious limitations of the question that he asked

But now you ask - Vic seemed to be asking the question:

"If you are being placed in the position of managing a major transformation/change programme - and no matter what the goals of the client were - you could manage it in a way to achieve just whatever the fuck you want............"

Now - you know that is not how things work - I also have a bit of experience. The people managing the programmes to not just 'do what the fuck they want' because of their personal agendas.

So - I was just being polite and answered the question that he should have been asking

And you reckon I twist your words!

I might sometimes try to untangle them, like that penultimate sentence.

 

[mcfc1632]

.....If the question is, how would you of used Programme management disciplines to deliver Brexit, then thats a different question. What was needed up front to develop a TOM......

Thoughts?

Yes - lots - and it is a very interesting subject

Of course this was a very 'different' initiative - I do not think that there was any, even basic level, planning for a Leave outcome. There was not the usual business strategy and intention to deliver transformation that would have see the right thing done first - i.e. produce the TOM

Would to have been better for some work to have been done on options/TOM before:

a) Cameron committed to the referendum
b) May issued A50
c) May got involved in 'negotiations'

All just rank amateur stuff by the government - and how do you manage a Change Programme with Zero knowledge of the options and their impacts - let alone the TOM

Anyway - it is getting late - and probably most posters are not familiar with managing change programmes

 

[mcfc1632]

Not being facetious but do you reckon the Brexit change program falls into the bracket of the other 3 put of 10.
I know it’s nothing you were involved in, just looking for your opinion.
Just briefly, I know your opinion of pre 2019 is different to after, but do you think that level of planning was ever done.

Just briefly (as possible).........

I can see no evidence that at any point in time or in any aspect/sector/etc. has there been any trace of what would be remotely considered good practice in the way Brexit has been managed - absolute shambles, which is something I have been saying since 2016

That is my view of the UK side - I have frequently expressed my admiration for the EU's approach/team

This was true during Cameron's term - there should have been impact assessments/options appraisal undertaken before the referendum - to inform the public

This was absolutely true during May's leadership - I could make a long list of the lack of professional management during her term. I know that there was commencement of levels of 'proper management of projects' in Spring/Summer 2018 - because I was asked by the CO (who run such matters across government) to be part of a small group to head up reviews of the the status/progress of those preparations for Brexit - that was far too late

It was also largely true of Johnson's term as well - there is little evidence of the portfolio of projects, all being coordinated as @Saddleworth2 described, to address the plethora of impacts that will affect the UK. The number of projects, within a change programme, that should have been in place across Defra alone would be significant - and there was no sign.

In the summer of 2018 a penny must have dropped - since then 'highly regarded staff' across all areas of the Civil Service have been redeployed 'onto Brexit' - but that is just fire-fighting and is absolutely not the management of projects/workstreams as determined by understanding the TOM for e.g. a sector

I freely admit that, against all odds, the outcome is a Brexit akin to what that I believe the UK needs - there is fuck all chance that it is an/the option that would have made the short-list had things 'been done properly'

Bob and others are set to have some fun, at the UK's expense, for months because the lack of such management must mean that literally 1000s of things that could have been identified and a resolution/policy/mitigation determined are going to emerge

That is me acknowledging the incompetence of our government in managing Brexit - not regretting the Brexit that has been achieved because of that incompetence

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Excellent news; obesity is costing the NHS billions every year, a reduction in portions of unhealthy foods like Percy Pig sweets can only be a good thing. BREXIT just keeps on giving.

Not too sure you're getting the point here. Product is manufactured in Germany and exported to the UK at zero tariffs. Packaged into branded packaging (in this case is was Marks & Spencers) and sent out to their stores. On entering the Eu they are subject to tariffs.

Outcome is that they are dearer than their competitors products = no sales.

How many other products will this apply to?

 

[Vic]

Not too sure you're getting the point here. Product is manufactured in Germany and exported to the UK at zero tariffs. Packaged into branded packaging (in this case is was Marks & Spencers) and sent out to their stores. On entering the Eu they are subject to tariffs.

Outcome is that they are dearer than their competitors products = no sales.

How many other products will this apply to?

It doesn't matter. It will be blamed on lack of Brexit workstreams.

 

[journolud]

Not too sure you're getting the point here. Product is manufactured in Germany and exported to the UK at zero tariffs. Packaged into branded packaging (in this case is was Marks & Spencers) and sent out to their stores. On entering the Eu they are subject to tariffs.

Outcome is that they are dearer than their competitors products = no sales.

How many other products will this apply to?

He absolutely gets the point but while remainers are accused of trawling for bad news some leavers can’t bring themselves to acknowledge there is any. Easy for him to dismiss the concerns with a facetious remark than address what it might mean in reality or what type of bigger problem it might imply

 

[Vic]

He absolutely gets the point but while remainers are accused of trawling for bad news some leavers can’t bring themselves to acknowledge there is any. Easy for him to dismiss the concerns with a facetious remark than address what it might mean in reality or what type of bigger problem it might imply

I think they're in denial...

A long way to go to accepting it's crap.