Political relations between UK-EU

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I'm well aware of that. Not only did we not put out a welcome mat, we barred emigration to the Mandate from Nazi Germany. The Aliens Act was overtly racist. That's why us building a Holocaust Memorial is profoundly hypocritical. We've nothing to be proud of in that respect.

But again, that's another red herring. Countries outside Schengen control their borders and even the Schengen area does to people from non-Schengen countries. Many control them far more tightly than we ever will.

isn't that a bit like ........sovereignty?

 

[west didsblue]

Probably, the history books will record, that it says that we had the vision to get out - just in time

The issues are too large for there not to be a fracturing - and therefore your positions are mainly limited to being academic

The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.

 

[Vic]

I thought that this was going to be a 'forwards looking' thread - or at least that seemed to be what the OP suggested

We are getting dragged back by a couple of posters to talk about the narrow issues that reflect their comfort zone - we should be discussing the future political relations between the UK and the EU

Some just cannot let go of their pet/failed ideals

Unless the mods intend to be ruthless, it was always optimistic as a thread title (too narrow). Even your pessimism (or maybe optimism in your case) about the future of the EU isn't strictly the topic - unless you think everything the UK does should be on the assumption that the EU is in a terminal crisis. Even if the EU were doomed to collapse, it would be hugely irresponsible to act as if that were inevitable.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.

Yaris Varoufakis would disagree with that sentiment.

 

[Vic]

The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.

I think it's instructive to look at polls - however flawed - and most EU citizens are content with the EU (including its Covid response) and quite big majorities think Macron and especially Merkel will do the right thing in world affairs. In fact, most Brits think they will, way more than think their own PM will...

 

[Vic]

The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.

Yaris Varoufakis would disagree with that sentiment.

Would he? Evidence?

 

[west didsblue]

Yaris Varoufakis would disagree with that sentiment.

About the EU or about the Eurozone?

Whichever it is he’s entitled to his opinion but I’m sure he’s not predicting the contents of history books.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

About the EU or about the Eurozone?

Whichever it is he’s entitled to his opinion but I’m sure he’s not predicting the contents of history books.

Greece.

 

[west didsblue]

Greece.

Still not sure what you’re on about. Greece had an economic crisis, got bailed out, accepted austerity measures imposed by the EU rather than crashing out of the Euro or EU, and recovered. That’s all fact and not sentiment. What point are you making?

 

[Vic]

Still not sure what you’re on about. Greece had an economic crisis, got bailed out, accepted austerity measures imposed by the EU rather than crashing out of the Euro or EU, and recovered. That’s all fact and not sentiment. What point are you making?

He was just making a throwaway remark about Varoufakis that can't be substantiated.