Political relations between UK-EU

[mcfc1632]

Bob did, on this thread. He wants global freedom of movement and that’s where the discussion began, you entered half way through.

The government might balls it up, but the system they’ve put into place is a better one for the country in my opinion, they might not implement it and put it into practice effectively, but the plan is better.


I have no idea what this means


The beauty of the points system is we can fix it by making sure more doctors and nurses can reach 70pts. I am sure they are already in the “low jobs category” that grants 20, then if they’re qualified it’s another 20, speak English 10 and if the NHS offers jobs to these people that’s 20 again.

It’s incredibly hard to police when people can just enter without applying to come in. Getting those who have been here 6 months without a job is nigh on impossible when EU citizens can just enter on a whim.

They definitely didn’t have the capacity to do that but is true they didn’t want to admit it, because it would prove they didn’t even try.

Indeed:

"The beauty of the points system is we can fix it by making sure more doctors and nurses can reach 70pts. I am sure they are already in the “low jobs category” that grants 20, then if they’re qualified it’s another 20, speak English 10 and if the NHS offers jobs to these people that’s 20 again."

The UK will have total control over how it sets the scoring and can then flex to meet its priorities. It is absolutely commonsense and after a few years of being implemented the benefits will be obvious and irrefutable.

RE:

Seems unlikely given that new trade deals will require a lot of immigration perhaps not too much economically but too much in the minds of the people who voted leave

I have no idea what this means

I read that as being just another desperate attempt to associate Leave voters to being anti-immigration

 

[Ban-jani]

Well it's not an immigration system. That's kinda the point.

But it is.

Freedom of movement for Europeans, visa based system, based on occupation and whether you can get sponsorship and your earnings for those outside of Europe.

That’s been the policy for years.

 

[mcfc1632]

I’ve read this several times and can only presume you’d had a drink last night?

What does Chinese culture, that’s existed for thousands of years, have to do with the Chinese Communist Party? And what does me disliking their government have to do with them being content with their culture?

A) This doesn’t surprise me, I’ve had the impression for a while several people on here don’t really like their country much. Self-hatred in a societal sense is very prevalent with some on the left at the moment

B) To be tolerant of other people’s cultures you don’t need to change your own, especially not to match theirs, which is a sort of weird masochism

C) Thankfully your view continues to be hammered in the polls every election and is a small minority view

Excellent and measured response

 

[mcfc1632]

Well my alternative would have been the EU, but apparently some people didn't like that.

But that has been rejected and we need to implement a system that will work for the UK - from 2021 onwards

As simply going back in a Tardis is not an option - do you have another alternative?

 

[Ban-jani]

Indeed:

"The beauty of the points system is we can fix it by making sure more doctors and nurses can reach 70pts. I am sure they are already in the “low jobs category” that grants 20, then if they’re qualified it’s another 20, speak English 10 and if the NHS offers jobs to these people that’s 20 again."

The UK will have total control over how it sets the scoring and can then flex to meet its priorities. It is absolutely commonsense and after a few years of being implemented the benefits will be obvious and irrefutable.

RE:


I have no idea what this means

I read that as being just another desperate attempt to associated Leave voters to being anti-immigration

It’s not only the criteria where we are short and need people we can change, it’s the whole thing, if we want to.

At the moment, STEM is a big cause for concern with talent, I know from personal experience.

So they’ve added extras points for anyone qualified to PHD level and people with enough experience in STEM - on top of having these jobs being in the 20 pts section for occupations we are short of people for.

This will see a specific type of skill set coming into the UK, with a significant number of people.

Once we are at healthy levels of this skill, it could be thousands of people, we can change it to something else.

That is the beauty of the whole system.

 

[mcfc1632]

Well that depends on whether we can achieve integration still in trade that’s as seamless as possible. Hopefully technology can bring it.

There’s risks either way, ultimately we’re part of a global economy, anything happening within the EU, or any large trading block, will have an impact on us.

I assume that the 'well that depends' part of your post relates to my belief that the future is rosy for the UK due to your concerns over frictions in conducting trade.

On that basis I agree - but again I am very optimistic. Now that the deed is done and there is little point in any party seeking to use the potential of friction as a negotiating tool - I think that we will indeed quickly see technology enabled reengineering of processes to ease flows - already there is seemingly not the materialisation of the 'issues predicted'

But and a separate point - for me the future of the UK is absolutely guaranteed to be (NETT) Rosy simply by removing the risk of being embroiled in the political, economic and fiscal integration that the EU simply must now accelerate

 

[mcfc1632]

It’s not only the criteria where we are short and need people we can change, it’s the whole thing, if we want to.

At the moment, STEM is a big cause for concern with talent, I know from personal experience.

So they’ve added extras points for anyone qualified to PHD level and people with enough experience in STEM - on top of having these jobs being in the 20 pts section for occupations we are short of people for.

This will see a specific type of skill set coming into the UK, with a significant number of people.

Once we are at healthy levels of this skill, it could be thousands of people, we can change it to something else.

That is the beauty of the whole system.

It is actually an excellent system and a no-brainer when considered with any semblance of objectivity

As you say, it offers also continuous opportunity to prioritise and flex to meet the changing needs of the UK

 

[west didsblue]

Indeed, but at least some of us can look forwards

And, whilst it is early days, we seem to be able to do so without worrying about many thousands of lorries being parked up in Kent or planes being able to land etc. - something that we surely should all be pleased about

Are you going to give us a lorry queue update every day or just weekends and bank holidays?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Bit like the Barnett Formulae then?


You don't mention the fact that people also send funds back from richer to poorer countries, move back to their original country suitably enriched. Many of the young people get their education and return including doctors nurses etc. The poorer countries also seem to have a favourable view of the EU despite all the issues you outline.


Colin, I should have started by saying how pleased I am to see you on this thread. Your forensic analysis will be a welcome addition.

I personally feel looking forward to the new relationship on this thread is best rather than re-analysing the EU (as you can imagine, we had quite a bit of that over the last few years. And I'm sure you will recognise that many that inhabit this thread would see things a little differently). So much to go at on the new topic of our future relationship rather than bayoneting the wounded on the old stuff don't you think?

The point I've been trying to make is that things change and people & institutions adapt over time. Change is never easy though. I went on a consultancy skills many years ago when working for an international consultancy and we worked in groups of 6 or 7. You worked with the same people during the day & in the evening from the start of the course on Sunday, and got a great group dynamic going. I can still picture & remember the names of people in my group, 20 years on, despite the fact we only knew each other for 6 days and never worked together again.

On Thursday morning the course tutors came in and said they were changing the groups and they moved a couple of people out of each group into another. There was uproar, with people actually in tears, and the whole group dynamic broke down. At one of the breaks, they reinstated the old groups and said it was a practical lesson about how change impacts people and that we had to think about these impacts. Even though we knew it was coming, the actual terms of our departure made it a precipitate event, with just days to spare.

Some things won't be as good for sure but other things may be better. No one knows yet though, so no one can say for sure that it's a pending complete disaster or the best thing since sliced bread. As I said, it's like El Alamein; the end of the beginning. Where the relationship goes from here will depend on the desire of the government and the goodwill of the EU. I even reckon the EU might secretly be glad to see the back of us, as I suspect that, being the main counterpart to France & Germany, we'd be the main blocker of closer integration. Now we're finally out, after 5 years of political chaos, perhaps we can start to look forward.

 

[mcfc1632]

Are you going to give us a lorry queue update every day or just weekends and bank holidays?

It seems strange to me that you want me to extend my update - but, Ok, although I cannot promise to be daily

But, as I do not want it to be a bore, I will limit the number posts to the number that we have previously received from (previously known as) Remainers telling us just how bad it is going to be.

Also - to demonstrate objectivity and show that I am able to 'man-up' if wrong - when we have daily queues of 7,000 (I seem to remember that was the f/c) lorries every day for a month - I will accept that you and others were right