Political relations between UK-EU

[metalblue]

A country does not have to leave the EU nor the Single Market to trade aggressively or successfully with non EU countries. A country can do both and plenty of EU countries do so. There is no economic argument or rationale for what we have done. It is a political decision.

TTIP was dead in 2015, too much internal resistance on both sides. Personally I was a little sketchy on it. Not a huge fan of US asks in trade talks.

Well I guess we will be seeing all these EU countries follow our lead and negotiate trade agreements when they see how well we have done (if we do).

Regarding TTIP - Honestly look it up mate. You need to ignore the fact it is now “dead” (well not dead but in a coma I think is a better description) and concentrate on the fact it even saw the light of day. It gave US corporates the ability to undermine local government policy if detrimental to their profit - the example cited at the time was US tobacco companies able to sue the UK for running public health anti-smoking policies. Just think about that. It tore up the rule book This was the main reason I voted to get the fuck out of there, completely lost confidence in them, it was the only way I could make my voice heard because I couldn’t vote out the clowns that even considered this bollocks any other way.

 

[metalblue]

The EU is planning to do the exact same thing.

It's still in the process of trying to tie up trade deals with Australia and New Zealand. Somehow I don't think the planet is on their minds either, nor has anyone criticised the EU for making such deals with Japan, Canada, Aus and NZ, yet as soon as the UK does it...

Climate change is an issue for all nations, 'blocs' and continents, and we're all going to have to work together on revolutionising how we transport trade from one area of the globe to another with 0% emissions, because trading with the farest reaches of the globe regularly and not just your neighbours IS the future of trading.

Us working together with the CPTPP members to reduce those emissions can only be a good thing, as the EU's track record on this isn't the best. Even the Euro Green parties are in constant argument over the issue.

TBF to the EU they have tried to make the environment a corner stone of policy. I think it was Peru they basically told them sustainable wood sources or you can keep your shit which did the trick. Can’t imagine the UK would have that much clout.

The EU is getting serious on reducing emissions as well so I won’t knock them on this one although like always I’m sure there is more that can be done more quickly

 

[meltonblue]

Indeed that needs to be considered

But the issue here for days is that there are a lot of muddled people commenting without experience

Such clauses are widely used in the circumstances where:

The classic use of best or reasonable endeavours terminology is where 1 party requires an important commitment from the other but that other party only has partial or limited control on meeting the commitment. In this situation, the compromise is that the committing party agrees to use best or reasonable endeavours to fulfil the obligation.

There were some on here a few days ago scoffing at people with experience suggesting that such a clause would be in the contract - without actually seeing the contract. For experienced people that was not really necessary - and of course it was proven to be correct

That the EU then kicked off in a manner that meant that they had not understood the purpose/scope of the clauses is really amateurish - where were their legal advisors?

No, people were saying the EUs argument was that it wouldn’t be applicable to each recital, which it isn’t. Even the recitals they have an issue with are ambiguous enough to not help them though - the sites being a prime example of it.

You don’t need to define what is meant by best endeavours in this particularly case either btw, both parties defined it themselves in the agreement.

The only solid argument I think the EU would have for breach of the contract is around late notification. Not that I think they’d ever actually go after it though, doesn’t really benefit anyone now and just antagonising a situation that went far too far already.

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh, right, so you never criticised the government for not entering an EU
procurement programme, a decision that proved your obsession with this
corrupt bureaucracy, did you? Noble aim my arse, the EU has been bickering and dithering for months, Macron wanted his name in lights with the new marvellous French vaccine, but their plants can't produce one. he's then seen his arse and we all know what happened since. Germany tried ordering it bypassing the EU, there's nothing noble
about any of it, this country, out of the EU, reacted, they didn't.

Germany ‘violates’ EU joint vaccine scheme by buying 30 million extra doses

Berlin had promoted pact that no members of the bloc would strike separate deals to secure jabs

www.theweek.co.uk

Is this an attempt to suggest your more altruistic than anyone else?
I've seen some jaw dropping shite on here many times, but this takes the
proverbial, but for shits and giggles I'll respond.
I most certainly would get vaccinated myself, as would everyone I know,
and who I'm related to, and, although it shouldn't need any explanation, the reasons are extremely simple.
1) I, you, or anyone else cannot solve the world's problems by opting to
share in the suffering, life isn't like that.
2)If you think that any rational UK citizens would decide to hang on until Mutti and Napoleon have decided to put a fucking order in, well carry on,
in fact, when you get offered yours, give Macron a ring and offer it to him.

Really well said

Shocking that France was playing politics

Remember the posts slagging of the government for not joining in the EU procurement

Will they ever admit that they are/have been wrong again and again

 

[mcfc1632]

Agreed, arguably free trade deals should be called trade management deals, however we cannot escape the logic that countries seek to reduce trade barriers in order to boost overall trade and if that is true then the opposite is also true.

This leads nicely to when I described the Brexit deal as being a ‘management tool’ for the EU, it allows them to manage the UK by trading our desire for more frictionless access (as highlighted currently by the fishing and agricultural sectors) for their desire for control. Financial Services has yet to be negotiated and we are operating on a time limited basis in some FS areas (whereas the US is not). All we have done is hand the EU leverage, it is the very opposite of control. We had no control over the aborted decision to trigger the Article 16 NI provisions. Fortunately, Dublin had the decision nixed in under four hours, but who had the most leverage? Dublin or London?

The two deals we have done with the EU have allowed NI to remain under the EU remit, imposed a customs border in our own territory, given the EU £40 billion, placed a slew of non tariff barriers on our exports, which even if complied with place additional administrative and direct costs on our companies, removed the UK as a transit and distribution hub and it’s only Monday.

Moving away from the EU is like Canada trying to move away from the US. Cosplaying as a Pacific Rim country is a political statement, not an economic one, and in 12 months we will still be a country based in Europe.

We’ve tried not joining, tried joining and now are trying ‘running away’. Good luck with that and commiserations to the industries and companies on their knees for voting to leave the EU secure in the knowledge that we will ‘retain the exact same benefits we had as members, indeed we can even negotiate better terms’.

If only heh........

If only the ideologues of the EU had been content with being the biggest trading bloc on the planet.

So many across Europe will have so much reason to resent them - especially those countries forced into the euro and then are now facing full on coercion towards full integration with even the Covid recovery fund being used as leverage

Yes - all across Europe - so many with increasing reasons to resent the EU

Less so the UK now because we have gotten out and will have avoided the depths that others will experience in years to come

 

[west didsblue]

All fair positions to hold. The main points I would make on trade with RoW are twofold; firstly we were always hamstrung by EU tariffs when trying to negotiate anything which leaves them thinking why bother and secondly being in the EU has left us having inward looking trade policies and strategies. This doesn’t mean somehow being free of the “shackles” of EU federalism and protectionism is automatically going to lead us to sunny uplands but I don’t think we can really judge it yet (either way)

When we were in the EU, we had free trade access to around 70 other countries. I believe we're up to rolling over deals with around 60 of them on similar terms. The only one where it's significantly different is the Japan deal where, apart from Stilton, it is less favourable than it was. All of these deals added up only contribute around 10% of our overall trade.

The main large countries that the EU did not have deals with are the US, China and India. In each case, the possibility of us negotiating a better deal on our own rather than in conjunction with the EU is negligible. We would not be in the driving seat in negotiations with any of them due to our size but as part of the EU we'd be going in as equals. The only ones we have left where it may be slightly advantageous to be out of the EU are small countries where our trade amounts to millions not billions that added up probably contribute only a few percent of our imports and exports.

 

[smudgedj]

Some epic trolling here or stupidity

Von der Leyens spokesman says that 'mistakes happen..only the Pope is infallible'

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Some epic trolling here or stupidity

Von der Leyens spokesman says that 'mistakes happen..only the Pope is infallible'

That's the way to resolve the Irish border issue - bring religion into it.

Strewth!

 

[mcfc1632]

................There is no economic argument, the decision to leave the EU and to stay outside the Single Market is a political one, not an economic one.

Or I could understand people thinking that this is just your bias and myopia

Another way of considering "....the decision to leave the EU and to stay outside the Single Market......"

Is simply an integrity based decision

It was made clear that leaving the EU would mean leaving the SM and CU - and yet the UK electorate chose to leave the EU

Do catch up

 

[mcfc1632]

....... and I'd need convincing that it is a better deal for us economically as well.

With genuine respect - this is where Remainers on here are stuck in some time warp

Why this attempt to demean membership of CPTPP with membership of the EU?

We as a nation have opted to leave the EU – it is gone – people need to get over it and move on