Political relations between UK-EU

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mcfc1632 said:
Overall the outcome of Brexit is completely and totally beyond my very best expectations pre-2016

When thinking back to how I was feeling in 2017-2019, as Remainer May shamefully fucked the UK over, then the outcome of December 2020 is absolutely off the fucking scale better than my best hopes, aspirations and dreams - I am totally and utterly delighted with where we are.
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mcfc1632 said:
Let's just say that - how Brexit has been done does not reflect 'best practice'

I have said on many occasions that the UK should have been managing Brexit as a major change programme since 2016. I have also said many times that Leave supporters have a lot more reason to be unhappy with the UK government than Remainers - May/Hammond wasted years refusing to sanction/commence/fund the planning and preparation for the UK to Leave the EU - they bear a lot of the responsibility for any lack of preparedness

Rank amateurish management by the UK government for 4 years
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So which is it?
It couldn’t be better or it’s going really badly?

You seem to be hedging your bets just so you can say you were right all along.

It’s a bit pathetic and transparent.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Ha. Won’t argue with that. It could have been implemented with more elegance though that’s for sure.
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It would never have worked with such polarised views. Any change program has to bring the people with you and whilst the 17.4 million totally ignored the wishes of the 16.2 million plus those that failed to vote it was never going to happen.

No compromises were ever proposed by leavers, no middle ground, total rejection of any solution ... and as more possibilities were proposed, the stance of the leavers hardened even when they started to realise that things would definitely not get better (and there would be no sunny uplands) and that a hard Brexit would seriously damage the UK and the Union.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
It would never have worked with such polarised views. Any change program has to bring the people with you and whilst the 17.4 million totally ignored the wishes of the 16.2 million plus those that failed to vote it was never going to happen.

No compromises were ever proposed by leavers, no middle ground, total rejection of any solution ... and as more possibilities were proposed, the stance of the leavers hardened even when they started to realise that things would definitely not get better (and there would be no sunny uplands) and that a hard Brexit would seriously damage the UK and the Union.
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Not really to bring the people with you then you satisfy the 25/30 million in the middle, not the 2 million or so at the either edge . Just because those 2 million make the most noise and shout the most they aren’t the common view.
If we’d gone the Norway option then yes the ERG and Daily Express, and I gues some arch remainers would have made noise and shouted about BRINO.
The fact is though impact on most people would have been minimal and most would have just got on with it.
As it is the impact won’t be minimal it will be noticed over time by many and there will be a constant push to re negotiate things, a constant reason to compare our Brexit with N. Ireland’s different Brexit especially.
A Brexit appealing to the vocal fringes can never be a good idea.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
It would never have worked with such polarised views. Any change program has to bring the people with you and whilst the 17.4 million totally ignored the wishes of the 16.2 million plus those that failed to vote it was never going to happen.

No compromises were ever proposed by leavers, no middle ground, total rejection of any solution ... and as more possibilities were proposed, the stance of the leavers hardened even when they started to realise that things would definitely not get better (and there would be no sunny uplands) and that a hard Brexit would seriously damage the UK and the Union.
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Then by that logic, remaining wouldn’t have worked either. I agree though that spending time after th3 referendum on agreeing the type of Brexit might have made things smother but no chance of that when Article 50 was triggered.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Then by that logic, remaining wouldn’t have worked either. I agree though that spending time after th3 referendum on agreeing the type of Brexit might have made things smother but no chance of that when Article 50 was triggered.
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Personally I put a lot of blame on Corbyn and the Labour party.They had the opportunity to use the Conservative slim majority to push for a cross party solution, along with tory rebels.That would have achieved a better kind of brexit. Once the election lost that chance then thar chance was lost.
 
blueparrot said:
Personally I put a lot of blame on Corbyn and the Labour party.They had the opportunity to use the Conservative slim majority to push for a cross party solution, along with tory rebels.That would have achieved a better kind of brexit. Once the election lost that chance then thar chance was lost.
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Yeah, agree. The Labour Party sat on the fence and look where that got them. As @Rascal has eloquently described in the past, a socialist labour would not support EU membership so th3y should have been honest.....but of course didn’t want to lose their centre ground.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Yeah, agree. The Labour Party sat on the fence and look where that got them. As @Rascal has eloquently described in the past, a socialist labour would not support EU membership so th3y should have been honest.....but of course didn’t want to lose their centre ground.
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If they had done that, they’d have maybe gained/retained supporters in the red wall but lost a lot to the LibDems, just off the top of my head we’d have ended up with a hung parliament and probably Parliament being blocked for some time over the issue.
 
Chris in London said:
One of those posts that you can’t really like, because, there’s nothing to like about it, but which adds to your understanding of the situation.

Thanks for posting.
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fucking depressing isn't it that after 4 years of saying this is what it was going to be like and told you were talking bullshit that this is how it ends? Despite what some accused me of I don't want any of this I never wanted any of this its going to adversely hit me and my kids future - for what?
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Back in the Summer I told the misery merchants to wake up the next day, turn on their computers and look for positives about Brexit. I thought it would do their mental health some good because their obsession with the negatives that they trawl the internet or their Twitter echo chambers for must be doing their general mood no good whatsoever.

Bob replied to that and said something along the lines of “it’s the Leavers role to post positive news about Brexit, it’s my role is to take the piss.”

So he’s not even doing it in good faith. He’s on the WUM. He isn’t here for anything but to oppose anything about Brexit, and he’s not in his own.

It’s just more of this disease of causing divisions in society.
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He’s trolling the thread and the forum IMO
 
There is a simplistic elegance to the EU’s position on the deal we have just signed, but first some good news, Ireland and France are ‘relaxing’ border controls until next week, which means food shipments can get through which will ease some of the problems in Ireland.

Unfortunately, this highlights the issue of us handing control of our border to Ireland and France with this deal.

The elegance is granting us tariff free access allowing EU goods to be sold in the UK (and vice versa), but also tying tariff free access to Rules of Origin which at a stroke renders the UK unviable as a transit hub which will also remove us from some supply chains.

The second part is self inflicted as we have refused to legally commit to maintaining EU standards so that we can ‘diverge‘. Now whether we diverge or not is immaterial as in the absence of a legal commitment the EU are obliged to treat consignments as if they do not meet EU standards and do the necessary checks which is what is impacting exports that are time sensitive, ie fish, foods etc.

The problem with insisting on a Canada or Japan type deal is that neither country is an EU transit hub, nor are goods time sensitive, there is no ‘nipping across the Channel.’

What the Brexit boffins failed to take into account when doing the deal was checking their maps to find out where the UK is located.

Which is a problem.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Yeah, agree. The Labour Party sat on the fence and look where that got them. As @Rascal has eloquently described in the past, a socialist labour would not support EU membership so th3y should have been honest.....but of course didn’t want to lose their centre ground.
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Take no notice of Rascal. He's outed himself in the Starmer thread as a Communist infiltrator.

Seriously , honest about what? Are you suggesting that the majority of Labour voters and members who wanted to Remain were somehow dissembling and really had views like Rascal's? Total bunkum.
 
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Vic said:
Take no notice of Rascal. He's outed himself as a Communist infiltrator.

Seriously , honest about what? Are you suggesting that the majority of Labour voters and members who wanted to Remain were somehow dissembling and really had views like Rascal's? Total bunkum.
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honest about their policy re Brexit. Their strategy pissed off both Remain and leave supporters.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
honest about their policy re Brexit. Their strategy pissed off both Remain and leave supporters.
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Correct in trying to be all things to all men, it ended up being nothing to anyone.

And now Macarthyite Vic has cunningly outed me as a Communist insurgent, kind of like the forum red under the bed I expect he thinks i am an agent of Putin or some other wild eyed fanatic intent on destroying democracy.
 
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