I voted for brexit. Which one of those charming definitions do I fall under?
It is a known part of psychology that the hardest thing in the world for human beings is not to admit they were wrong but to admit that they were duped by someone else, because of its obvious connotations. So rather than admit they were fooled people use mental gymnastics to justify things despite them being obviously incorrect. Psychologists call it cognitive dissonance and I call it "yebbutting".That’s an unfair generalisation. Some Brexiteers are doubling down for sure, some are very quiet about it and there are plenty who have expressed their disappointment about the way Brexit has panned out.
Wouldn’t want to go all woke and woolly about it but I suspect there is a lot to be said about the psychology of having to reshape your view about something you were a fervent supporter of. Let’s face it the debate was and is toxic and people have been wedded to their positions for a long time
Your given reasons for voting for Brexit were dumb. The claimed benefits of Brexit, better trade deal, better relations with our neighbours etc., have not materialised. Indeed, the opposite has happened.
Personally, I would categorise continued support for a failed project as stupidity or stubbornness. Which one Brexiteers choose is up to them.
TTIP, or something very similar to it, would have become more likely in the event of brexit had clinton won in 2016. It would have been a pre-condition in terms of getting agreement on any trade deal with the US and we would have been negotiating from a significantly weaker position due to our loss of influence due to brexit, so your single and only reason for voting leave i'm afraid was misguided. As it turns out, captain racist pants won, and sacked it all off, but TTIP was something I was deeply concerned about too (as everyone should have been) and I was in zero doubt that brexit would make it more likely. Brexit didn't stop it, the racist orange baboon did.Given I voted for Brexit because of TTIPs none of your claimed benefits applied in my decision making. My issue is, and remains, that TTIPs allowed for the rights of corporations to be on an equal footing to that of government - ie the UK government could be sued by a US tobacco firm because the NHS has an anti smoking campaign. TTIPs was kicked in to touch by Trump of all people but for those paying any attention the EU has made new overtones to the Biden administration to see if the deal can be resurrected. The EU never wanted it to die and still want it.
You might be comfortable with that, you might be trusting of the political classes not to fuck us over, that’s for everyone to wrestle with their own consciousness on - it’s certainly not for me to glibly cast insults in the direction of an entire group of people who happen to hold a different viewpoint that me.
So yeah I would vote leave again tomorrow, and the day after that and the day after that and so on until my dying breath. Not because I am stubborn or stupid, but because I am deeply principled on this matter. If TTIPs had never been uttered I would have voted remain.
Brexiteers - thick as fucking mince - too old and stubborn to admit they are wrong - too racist to back down - they fit into one or all of those boxes. Told my kids hang on a few years as so many will die off they can then start a movement to rejoin
Given I voted for Brexit because of TTIPs none of your claimed benefits applied in my decision making. My issue is, and remains, that TTIPs allowed for the rights of corporations to be on an equal footing to that of government - ie the UK government could be sued by a US tobacco firm because the NHS has an anti smoking campaign. TTIPs was kicked in to touch by Trump of all people but for those paying any attention the EU has made new overtones to the Biden administration to see if the deal can be resurrected. The EU never wanted it to die and still want it.
You might be comfortable with that, you might be trusting of the political classes not to fuck us over, that’s for everyone to wrestle with their own consciousness on - it’s certainly not for me to glibly cast insults in the direction of an entire group of people who happen to hold a different viewpoint that me.
So yeah I would vote leave again tomorrow, and the day after that and the day after that and so on until my dying breath. Not because I am stubborn or stupid, but because I am deeply principled on this matter. If TTIPs had never been uttered I would have voted remain.
You're last point is what the Brexiteers get a free pass on and shouldn't.The day the UK jumps into bed with the US and allows US Companies to sue the NHS or whoever they like if they get in their way, I will laugh my tits off.
TTIP was long dead before Trump. The mood in Europe itself was against it. And the people of Europe via their Parliaments or referendum do get a say on these issues. Unlike us where it’s decided by the Executive.
To kneecap a country over something that was never going to happen and make it more likely it will actually happen to the country you ’are trying to protect’ is a delusion on a grand scale.
We are so weak, we can’t even get the US to remove the Trump steel tariffs. Biden wants the EU on side in the fight to constrain China so they get them removed. The UK has to wait, and it also acts as a pressure point in the row over the NI protocol - which is another fine mess the Brexit Brains Trust landed us in.
Oh, and you ushered into Govt a bunch of incompetent morons. The details over the Afghanistan withdrawal makes for grim reading this morning. And by ushered in, I mean you voted them in. To be honest and given your record, I would stop voting, take a time out before you totally sink the UK.
You are James O'Brien and I claim my £10. ;-)It is a known part of psychology that the hardest thing in the world for human beings is not to admit they were wrong but to admit that they were duped by someone else, because of its obvious connotations. So rather than admit they were fooled people use mental gymnastics to justify things despite them being obviously incorrect. Psychologists call it cognitive dissonance and I call it "yebbutting".
Yebbut but it would have been great if we'd stayed in the customs union.
Yebbut the EU are all bastards.
Yebbut it's going to collapse one day anyway.
The debate got so heated and toxic that exactly as you say, people actually became their choice. They weren't people who voted to leave the EU, they were Brexiteers. It became like their football team. You could hear that repeatedly when large numbers of people would basically argue that they wanted Brexit, after it was obvious it would be damaging, just to piss off Remainers.
I have respect for anyone prepared to admit they got it wrong. It's no surprise given the misinformation and hype there was. I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who still claims that leaving the EU was a good thing. I think they are idiots.
TTIP, or something very similar to it, would have become more likely in the event of brexit had clinton won in 2016. It would have been a pre-condition in terms of getting agreement on any trade deal with the US and we would have been negotiating from a significantly weaker position due to our loss of influence due to brexit, so your single and only reason for voting leave i'm afraid was misguided. As it turns out, captain racist pants won, and sacked it all off, but TTIP was something I was deeply concerned about too (as everyone should have been) and I was in zero doubt that brexit would make it more likely. Brexit didn't stop it, the racist orange baboon did.
The day the UK jumps into bed with the US and allows US Companies to sue the NHS or whoever they like if they get in their way, I will laugh my tits off.
TTIP was long dead before Trump. The mood in Europe itself was against it. And the people of Europe via their Parliaments or referendum do get a say on these issues. Unlike us where it’s decided by the Executive.
To kneecap a country over something that was never going to happen and make it more likely it will actually happen to the country you ’are trying to protect’ is a delusion on a grand scale.
We are so weak, we can’t even get the US to remove the Trump steel tariffs. Biden wants the EU on side in the fight to constrain China so they get them removed. The UK has to wait, and it also acts as a pressure point in the row over the NI protocol - which is another fine mess the Brexit Brains Trust landed us in.
Oh, and you ushered into Govt a bunch of incompetent morons. The details over the Afghanistan withdrawal makes for grim reading this morning. And by ushered in, I mean you voted them in. To be honest and given your record, I would stop voting, take a time out before you totally sink the UK.