Political relations between UK-EU

[Octavian]

Let it go, you contrarian loon.

He's a miles more informed and sensible poster than you.

From you that’s a compliment.

And if you were informed you’d have seen me letting it go!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The German government didn’t signal that at all. About 2 months after the Brexit vote one of the German economic? minister came out and said it had failed. Merkel was always in favour of TTIPs

Clinton was Obama’s prodigy. She wasn’t even the democrat nomination at the time of the Brexit vote was she? Regardless she was full square behind Obama who obviously wanted TTIPs. I recall them both saying the UK would be at the back of a queue for a trade deal. I imagine a lot of those who wanted to remain jumped on those words at the time so you’ll probably recall it well.

So you’re saying that my reasons for voting leave (TTIPs) were wasted because the EU-US will never agree a trade deal which sort of begs the question why did they even bother trying then? Should have just come on here and been put straight.

I do find it strange how me, a Tory voter, am having to defend our public sector against corporatism from those whom reside on the left of our political spectrum. I’m pretty sure you’ll find me standing shoulder to shoulder with the unions on this one. Worlds gone mad.

For factual and historical context, it was a gift to David Cameron, the PM at the time…

A former key aide to Barack Obama has confirmed David Cameron personally asked the US president to warn Britain would be "back of the queue" for a post-Brexit trade deal.

Ben Rhodes, an ex-White House adviser, admitted Mr Obama's dramatic intervention in the EU referendum campaign came at the personal request of the former prime minister.

In April 2016, two months before the Brexit vote, the former president used a visit to London to caution the UK would not be a priority for a trade deal with America if British voters chose to quit the EU.

Mr Obama warned: "The UK is going to be in the back of the queue."

At the time, the remarks were furiously rejected by Brexit campaigners, who suspected co-ordination between 10 Downing Street and the Obama camp.

They pointed to the president's choice of the word "queue", rather than the typically American usage of "line", as evidence of British involvement in scripting Mr Obama's comments.

Mr Rhodes, who recently released a memoir of his time working for Mr Obama, has now revealed that was the case.

 

[Vic]

I’ll answer this once to no one poster in particular, to all of you and be gone.
Quite frankly I’m sick of being told what I was ‘insinuating’ and who I was talking about. What I have the right to comment on and what I don’t.

The word loon’ seems to be contentious and I regret not having articulated myself better. If that is offensive I apologise but I really take no responsibility for someone else not understanding what really was a simple enough initial post and I have since tried to clarify but yet words are being metaphorically put in my mouth that are so far from the truth that, if I was thin skinned, I may just find myself equally or more offended.
I have never been abusive to anyone on this forum and I’m not about to start now.

I have written in the various threads in the political forum down through the years, although not so much lately and I’m being reminded why.
I have contributed in the Irish politics, Brexit and the UK-EU, which I assumed included a view from the EU. If that’s not welcome. Fine. I’ve no problem abstaining again.

But my view has been consistent through all of those threads regarding the British public. I pretty much agree with my main critique in here lately, that the British public had the right to choose democratically for Brexit and to endorse the government that supported it. That’s what democracy is.
My only input throughout the ensuing years has been where it concerns Irish/UK relations and in particular NI/Irish relationships and a keen interest in understanding NI/UK relationships.

So my position is very clear.
I consider your government totally untrustworthy. How that is portrayed to the British public is your concern and it’s your problem to deal with if indeed you see it as a problem. From our position trying to deal with them in what are very sensitive issues from our perspective, that transcend mere Brexit, they are transparent.
Nobody over here doesn’t see through them. That is the point.Whatever your internal perceptions of them, we have our own and we see it as very important as they seem destined through design or lack of it, to set UK/IRL relations back thirty years or so. Never mind UK/EU.

I have a great interest in whether a certain part of the UK namely NI sees through them or not. I know the DUP will support them for their own aims but they would be dropped in an instant when it suits by Boris & Co.
Neither give a damn about the GFA, but as I have stated before it is the only protection they have and if I was a unionist I would not be so quick to let it be thorn up.

So my main point was a simple one.
The view from the outside is transparent.
That’s hard to negotiate with in good faith.
It’s considered a bad look.

I’ll leave you all to it.

Take no notice of loons who don't like being called loons.

And who think Britain's international reputation is of no concern to other countries...

Northern Ireland secretary was actually praising Frost in HoC today for his understanding of the situation!

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

From you that’s a compliment.

And if you were informed you’d have seen me letting it go!

You aren't fooling anyone Ban Ban.

 

[Octavian]

You aren't fooling anyone Ban Ban.

Sigh, this again…

 

[journolud]

Sigh, this again…

To be fair I know it’s not you, Ban-jani was much more eloquent ;-)

 

[Octavian]

To be fair I know it’s not you, Ban-jani was much more eloquent ;-)

I’m getting it from every side here haha!

 

[BobKowalski]

The German government didn’t signal that at all. About 2 months after the Brexit vote one of the German economic? minister came out and said it had failed. Merkel was always in favour of TTIPs

Clinton was Obama’s prodigy. She wasn’t even the democrat nomination at the time of the Brexit vote was she? Regardless she was full square behind Obama who obviously wanted TTIPs. I recall them both saying the UK would be at the back of a queue for a trade deal. I imagine a lot of those who wanted to remain jumped on those words at the time so you’ll probably recall it well.

So you’re saying that my reasons for voting leave (TTIPs) were wasted because the EU-US will never agree a trade deal which sort of begs the question why did they even bother trying then? Should have just come on here and been put straight.

I do find it strange how me, a Tory voter, am having to defend our public sector against corporatism from those whom reside on the left of our political spectrum. I’m pretty sure you’ll find me standing shoulder to shoulder with the unions on this one. Worlds gone mad.

You mean he said it in 2016? That’s what I said, plus you think that the failure in talks popped up out of the blue? No, failure had been on the cards for the previous 12 months if not longer before anyone would go on record and admit it. They were running into intractable differences and increasingly hostile public opinion.

And, no. Clinton was not Obama’s prodigy. They had a pragmatic relationship - initially they were bitter rivals, partly stemming from when they went head to head in 2008 for the Democrat nomination.

A EU/US trade deal isn’t going to happen. When TTIP was first proposed there were high hopes, but we all saw were those hopes went. But now, in the era of Covid and post-Trump, what little hope that remained has long since gone.

The UK though is ripe for plucking, or fucking, if the US can be bothered. The best defence against the US sticking its dick in us, was the fact there were nigh on 30 other countries less than happy at being dictated to by US interests. The UK on the other hand, just loves getting dictated to by the US. It makes us feel special.

The reasoning behind your vote was flawed.

 

[BobKowalski]

This Brexit lark is going well...


‘Less global. The UK economy has become less globalised, with effects from the pandemic exacerbated by Brexit. For example, compared to the 2019 average, trade flows (imports plus exports as a share of GDP) in the UK have fallen by far more than in any other G7 country. Indeed in Q3 this year, the UK’s trade flows (as a share of GDP) were the lowest since 2009. By contrast, among the EU countries, trade as a share of GDP has largely recovered to pre-pandemic levels. Moreover, UK firms report greater frictions in the process of importing and exporting. The UK labour market also has become less global: there has been a marked drop in the numbers of EU nationals working in the UK, and firms report greater difficulties in hiring EU staff to work in the UK.’ Source: Bank of England.

 

[metalblue]

You mean he said it in 2016? That’s what I said, plus you think that the failure in talks popped up out of the blue? No, failure had been on the cards for the previous 12 months if not longer before anyone would go on record and admit it. They were running into intractable differences and increasingly hostile public opinion.

And, no. Clinton was not Obama’s prodigy. They had a pragmatic relationship - initially they were bitter rivals, partly stemming from when they went head to head in 2008 for the Democrat nomination.

A EU/US trade deal isn’t going to happen. When TTIP was first proposed there were high hopes, but we all saw were those hopes went. But now, in the era of Covid and post-Trump, what little hope that remained has long since gone.

The UK though is ripe for plucking, or fucking, if the US can be bothered. The best defence against the US sticking its dick in us, was the fact there were nigh on 30 other countries less than happy at being dictated to by US interests. The UK on the other hand, just loves getting dictated to by the US. It makes us feel special.

The reasoning behind your vote was flawed.

I mean a the evidence you offer that TTIPs was dead all occurred after the Brexit vote.

Curiously if the deal has obviously been dead since 2015 or before why did both sides continue to meet to discuss said dead deal? Clearly there were challenges with the deal but that’s largely true of any trade deal else they’d just be one meeting where they agree everything and sign on the dotted line wouldn’t there?

You do know the EU and US have kicked off discussion again don’t you? You know post-Trump. So that little hope that you think has long gone, hasn’t at all.

My reasoning for my vote still sits very well with me and your attempts with trying to prove otherwise are making you look a bit silly. Probably best to just leave it there rather than going round in circles with you rewriting history.