Political relations between UK-EU

[BobKowalski]

I understand the process of applying to become a member of the EU.

But my point was specifically regarding how the EU behaves to immigration. It behaves as one large state, which allows internal free movement but not external.

In fact, it now behaves no differently to immigration than its neighbouring union, the United Kingdom.

Only difference being, the United Kingdom has been one states for far longer, with a much smaller population and its political and cultural ties are far more closely linked.

The criticism I have with the EU is they’ve tried to implement it as one state, on a too large a scale, with geopolitical issues and economic disparity.

However, the EU completely agrees with me on freedom of movement coming from outside the union. If freedom of movement was such a great idea, they would have extended it to somewhere else, outside of the union, whereas in reality they’ve seen the issues it has caused internally on such a large scale and know it’s a bad policy to extend it elsewhere.

External immigration is in the power of individual nations and they are not inclined to extend that power to the EU. There is EU competence on tourist travel in the Schengen area and on refugee issues, but each member state determines its rules for non EU immigrants.

You still seem unable to grasp the basis for freedom of movement. Firstly it is not an immigration issue. FoM is not seen as immigration, anymore than we see a Scotsman moving to England to live or work as immigration.

FoM is an economic issue, it is a condition of having a Single Market which requires the free movement of people. Without joining the Single Market you will not have FoM, it doesn’t exist in isolation. It is a byproduct, not a product in itself. It is a benefit that flows from being in the Single Market.

If Algeria wants to benefit from the Single Market it will then benefit from FoM. It doesn’t happen the other way round. FoM requires a hamonised regulatory market between countries, common rules that allow barriers to reduce etc. It require convergence, which is why it’s a slow process.

 

[Ban-jani]

External immigration is in the power of individual nations and they are not inclined to extend that power to the EU. There is EU competence on tourist travel in the Schengen area and on refugee issues, but each member state determines its rules for non EU immigrants.

You still seem unable to grasp the basis for freedom of movement. Firstly it is not an immigration issue. FoM is not seen as immigration, anymore than we see a Scotsman moving to England to live or work as immigration.

FoM is an economic issue, it is a condition of having a Single Market which requires the free movement of people. Without joining the Single Market you will not have FoM, it doesn’t exist in isolation. It is a byproduct, not a product in itself. It is a benefit that flows from being in the Single Market.

If Algeria wants to benefit from the Single Market it will then benefit from FoM. It doesn’t happen the other way round. FoM requires a hamonised regulatory market between countries, common rules that allow barriers to reduce etc. It require convergence, which is why it’s a slow process.

I’ve literally just said all of that, that was my point, you’re agreeing with me. They behave like one big state and movement isn’t seen as immigration. That is the issue people like me have with it.

They view external immigration, whether individual countries or not, in the same way we do in the UK now, ie they don’t allow free movement, you may need points or a certain type of visa and it’s usually based on how much money you earn.

 

[west didsblue]

I knew full well remain voters would be stating how shit it was and leave voters saying how good it is, when in reality it’s a bit “meh”.

It's not just a Remain v Leave thing. It's more people whose jobs depend on no import/export friction or a single market for services or who want opportunities afforded by more inward investment versus people whose jobs don't need any of those things. The latter group will think it's a bit meh whereas the former group will either be worse off or will look to emigrate.

 

[BobKowalski]

We’ve not given NI away, they’re temporarily in both customs unions but governed politically by the UK.

NI is in the EU Single Market for goods. It is no longer legally in the EU customs union, but it is within the border of it. This is why there is a EU/GB border in the Irish Sea. It’s a grey zone for want of a better description.

It will be in the EU Single Market until the citizens of NI say otherwise, which is likely to be permanently, but never say never and all that.

 

[Vic]

It's not just a Remain v Leave thing. It's more people whose jobs depend on no import/export friction or a single market for services or who want opportunities afforded by more inward investment versus people whose jobs don't need any of those things. The latter group will think it's a bit meh whereas the former group will either be worse off or will look to emigrate.

Or in the case of farmers (particularly) take their own lives.

 

[Ban-jani]

NI is in the EU Single Market for goods. It is no longer legally in the EU customs union, but it is within the border of it. This is why there is a EU/GB border in the Irish Sea. It’s a grey zone for want of a better description.

It will be in the EU Single Market until the citizens of NI say otherwise, which is likely to be permanently, but never say never and all that.

I know all this Bob

 

[squirtyflower]

.............and I am sure that the existing members are looking forward positively to the 'investment opportunity' (aka burden) that membership for Albania, Bosnia and others will enforce upon them.

I asked @BobKowalski the question as even the most un-political City fan would be aware of the annexation of parts of the Ukraine by the left-wing dictator of Russia trampling over the citizens of an elected government.
I went to Kiev to see City play Dinamo in 2015 with Bill. And then we had three games against Shakthar Donetsk which had to be moved to Kharkiv due to the communists ruling the strip of land Donetsk was in.
I can’t believe anyone couldn’t remember that and the highly unlikely acquiescence of the dictator to allow closer European ties.

 

[west didsblue]

I asked @BobKowalski the question as even the most un-political City fan would be aware of the annexation of parts of the Ukraine by the left-wing dictator of Russia trampling over the citizens of an elected government.
I went to Kiev to see City play Dinamo in 2015 with Bill. And then we had three games against Shakthar Donetsk which had to be moved to Kharkiv due to the communists ruling the strip of land Donetsk was in.
I can’t believe anyone couldn’t remember that and the highly unlikely acquiescence of the dictator to allow closer European ties.

You think Putin’s left wing??

 

[BobKowalski]

I know all this Bob

With respect you said, Customs Union, not Single Market, and ‘temporary’ when it’s permanent unless the people of NI say otherwise.

That the EU and Dublin will want to make this arrangement for NI work, means they will try to make the whole deal work, which is in itself good news.

 

[BobKowalski]

You think Putin’s left wing??

Grasp of foreign affairs not a strong point with Brexiteers.