Political relations between UK-EU

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bluethrunthru said:
what is to stop them? Frosty the Showman now bleating that the EU has to change its tune - we are very supine for for a nation that has taken back control holds all the cards - if you recall we blinked first and Johnson tried to be unethical and unreliable by threatening Article 16

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit: EU relationship 'more than bumpy' since trade deal, says Lord Frost

The UK's chief Brexit negotiator says Brussels must adopt a "different spirit" towards its neighbour.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Oh I see so you think this is the EU being tit for tat (maybe still fuming over vaccines)? Or are they being “decent trading partners”? No one is denying they “have the right to do it”, I question if they “are right to do it” and I have to say no (but my stance does all depend on this September 2019 meeting)
 
metalblue said:
Oh I see so you think this is the EU being tit for tat (maybe still fuming over vaccines)? Or are they being “decent trading partners”? No one is denying they “have the right to do it”, I question if they “are right to do it” and I have to say no (but my stance does all depend on this September 2019 meeting)
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I am just baffled by Leavers approach to all this - outrage when the EU does what they predicted the EU will do. I suppose if they were all sweetness and light you'd have nothing to continue to bitch about
 
journolud said:
While none of it signals the apocalypse, which oddly seems to be the only measure that matters for some in judging the effects of Brexit, the evidence does seem to be stacking up that it isn’t the utopia we were promised. Still, we’ll no doubt be berated for having a sudden concern for JD distribution centre workers and be told it’s all our fault for being remainers anyway
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To be honest, the absence of zombies rampaging outside has been one of my go to metrics in measuring the success of Brexit.
 
metalblue said:
I’d have nothing to bitch about if the EU said “no you can’t” when asked in September 2019.
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but they didn't - get over it - this is what being out alone in the brave new world looks like. Plenty of countries will say one thing and do another. Where do we take our complaints to? The World Customer Service Desk?
 
metalblue said:
I’d have nothing to bitch about if the EU said “no you can’t” when asked in September 2019.
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While I can appreciate the sentiment here that it appears the EU have gone back on what sounds like a “gentlemen’s agreement “ isn’t it incredibly naive of our supposedly top notch negotiating team to not look for something more substantial in the final deal?

The relationship between the EU and the UK has been becoming increasingly testy for a while, how do you see it continuing and what needs to happen for it to improve?
 
metalblue said:
None of that matters. If the EU told us in September 2019 it was ok they can’t reasonably change their mind now especially without significant notice. This isn’t about shellfish it’s about having an ethical and reliable trading partner. The fact you think that it is ok to behave this way is surprising.

I would hope we have a paper trail to back up our claims we were told in September 2019 it would be ok; and we should publish it. Call them on this.

I see Ursula is under fire from both the UK and from the chairman of the european parliament committee on fisheries on this now. So it’s not just us brits saying it’s not right.
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I don’t think it’s okay, I’m not just taken by surprised or morally outraged over it. You hand the other side leverage then they will use it. Object now is to engage constructively and try and reach a satisfactory conclusion.

There will be many incidents like this in the future, so let’s skip the shocked faces and ‘how dare they!’ phases of the negotiations.
 
metalblue said:
I’d have nothing to bitch about if the EU said “no you can’t” when asked in September 2019.
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Given that predates the withdrawal agreement and us leaving the EU, I’m not sure that letter could ever be what Eustace is suggesting it was. Definitely be interesting to see it.
 
bluethrunthru said:
but they didn't - get over it - this is what being out alone in the brave new world looks like. Plenty of countries will say one thing and do another. Where do we take our complaints to? The World Customer Service Desk?
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Excellent. So it should just be a free for all? Fuck agreements and the such. What was your opinion when the UK brought in legislation to override parts of the withdrawal agreement if there was a no deal Brexit? I won’t bother looking only you’ll know if you were outraged by it all but if you were the term hypocrite would spring to mind
 
BobKowalski said:
I don’t think it’s okay, I’m not just taken by surprised or morally outraged over it. You hand the other side leverage then they will use it. Object now is to engage constructively and try and reach a satisfactory conclusion.

There will be many incidents like this in the future, so let’s skip the shocked faces and ‘how dare they!’ phases of the negotiations.
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Fair enough mate. I do agree the object now should be to reach a satisfactory conclusion and there will be many more such incidents
 
metalblue said:
Was during the negotiations as part of the WA but definitely agree would be interesting to see
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Right so unless it was also rolled over as part of the trade agreement (which I’m assuming it wasn’t discussed, otherwise he’d have mentioned something more recent than it), then I don’t get how it could still apply.

He has said he’d publish it though so we should get to see it at least.
 
journolud said:
While I can appreciate the sentiment here that it appears the EU have gone back on what sounds like a “gentlemen’s agreement “ isn’t it incredibly naive of our supposedly top notch negotiating team to not look for something more substantial in the final deal?

The relationship between the EU and the UK has been becoming increasingly testy for a while, how do you see it continuing and what needs to happen for it to improve?
Click to expand...

I don’t think it was explicitly in the trade agreement which might well be half the problem if we are relying on a separate “commitment”.

I think the UK should play a straight bat for a while. Certainly avoid escalation but that doesn’t help the fishermen here. If it’s payback perhaps they’ll be satisfied with this if it’s just genuinely bureaucratic bollocks (and I would prefer it if it was rather than malice) then this thread is going to top 100000 pages by year end!
 
I thought for a moment that Eustice had known about this for a year, but no - his letter to the EU is just dated wrong (8 February 2020). He says the present stance is "in our view inconsistent with earlier statements provides (sic) to us by Commission Services. On 27 September 2019 the Commission Services provided advice to the UK Chief Veterinary Officer ...." "...the Commission Service advised ..."

The reply from the EU is awaited...
 
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BobKowalski said:
I don’t think it’s okay, I’m not just taken by surprised or morally outraged over it. You hand the other side leverage then they will use it. Object now is to engage constructively and try and reach a satisfactory conclusion.

There will be many incidents like this in the future, so let’s skip the shocked faces and ‘how dare they!’ phases of the negotiations.
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A bit like this;
1612901054467.png
 
metalblue said:
Excellent. So it should just be a free for all? Fuck agreements and the such. What was your opinion when the UK brought in legislation to override parts of the withdrawal agreement if there was a no deal Brexit? I won’t bother looking only you’ll know if you were outraged by it all but if you were the term hypocrite would spring to mind
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Thats what we left ourselves wide open to? who do we complain to about any other country? WTO? ECJ ? Watchdog? You all fell for the importance of getting a deal - nobody asked whats in the deal? when it turns out to be a steaming turd everyone cries they were sold a turd.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Thats what we left ourselves wide open to? who do we complain to about any other country? WTO? ECJ ? Watchdog? You all fell for the importance of getting a deal - nobody asked whats in the deal? when it turns out to be a steaming turd everyone cries they were sold a turd.
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Yep.
The most ironic thing is the pleasure the Brexit fans got from getting away from any involvement with the ECJ. If our argument about fish has merit, it would be the ECJ that could enforce it if we had not been so insistent that it had no jurisdiction. As it is, the EU appear to be able to do what they want and the mechanism for any redress is about as clear as mud. Another triumph for Frosty.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/brexit-and-dispute-resolution
 
metalblue said:
I don’t think it was explicitly in the trade agreement which might well be half the problem if we are relying on a separate “commitment”.

I think the UK should play a straight bat for a while. Certainly avoid escalation but that doesn’t help the fishermen here. If it’s payback perhaps they’ll be satisfied with this if it’s just genuinely bureaucratic bollocks (and I would prefer it if it was rather than malice) then this thread is going to top 100000 pages by year end!
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It absolutely is bureaucratic and is only the beginning!
 
In the least shocking news ever :)

‘The UK government will not publish an impact assessment of its trade deal with the EU despite producing similar reviews of other major trade pacts it has signed‘ @Bloomberg
 
Vic said:
UK fishing was in decline for a hundred years or more before we joined the EU, but it was Norway that screwed our fishing industry - by imposing a 200 mile limit (it's an independent coastal state, you know). Brexit so far has ruined the deal we had. The government made a big play of how we'd be able to agree annual quotas with Norway to fish in their waters - but as Norway doesn't really need access to our waters, we haven't got much to bargain with. It's not just shellfish exports, it's cod imports, and Brexit has scuppered both.
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Absolute tosh and nonsense.
 
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