Possible new stadium - some interesting information

[Gordyola]

No it can't

I'm qualified and confident enough to say it can.!
The inner ring and cable supports would stay in place until the new roof structure is completed with its own ring section, which is then attached and tensioned to the existing one resulting in one continuous ring angling up to the new higher section, before removing the old part.

Roof structure
Concept and structural systems
A central feature of The City of Manchester Stadium is its
distinctive and dynamic form, key to which is the structural
solution for supporting the roof. The roof structure essentially
comprises two separate structural systems.
12 cigar-shaped tubular steel masts up to 65m high
support a total of 76 spiral strand forestay cables in fanshaped
groups of five or seven cables per mast. Each
forestay supports an individual rafter. The rafters are supported at the rear of the Stadium bowl through integrated V-strut columns on the
concrete bowl. The V-struts allow sufficient headroom
between the rear seating terraces and roof structure as well
as providing for transfer of horizontal thrust from the rafters
to the bowl. Towards the inside of the Stadium the rafters
cantilever by up to 14m beyond the support provided by
the forestays.

Ok but the new structure would need to be built around the existing one as I suggested in a previous post the existing cable-net could be incorporated in the new structure. Roofs of this type though tend to incorporate form in the structure, its difficult to imagine the new sections incorporation in the existing one though. Also the ground anchor points for the roof need to be considered as these are set some way outside the boundary of the structure. Whatever the solution will be interesting<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:32 pm --<br /><br />

your qualified...... with a statement like that! building a bigger higher roof & then expecting the existing supports to take the forces x god knows how much more??????????

sorry mate, no way on gods earth

removal of the complete roof before any new one above it & we will all be in the Gene Kelly stand for a season or 2

I concur Frank

 

[blumoonrisen]

your qualified...... with a statement like that! building a bigger higher roof & then expecting the existing supports to take the forces x god knows how much more??????????

sorry mate, no way on gods earth

removal of the complete roof before any new one above it & we will all be in the Gene Kelly stand for a season or 2

I never said the existing supports would be used! how can they if the new roof section will be higher.?!
the design means the inner web and cables would have to be left in situ, until the new higher ones are installed and attached to the existing ring at the sides.
Obv hard to explain in a few words, and there any many factors to overcome but it is def possible.
However I still wouldn't be surprised if a new stadium was built.

 

[pepsi_dave]

Would this not be a possibility......

Suppose the existing structure is to remain as it is in its entirity for the time being while having the "new" stadium built around our current one. Start with the North Stand for example, and close off the area immediately outside the current building. This allows a new building that would butt up to the current stadium, which as and when time allows can be linked to the curren stadium by removing what would become a partition wall. Obviously I would expect some of this wall to contain structure, but as long as the vertical steel works stay in place I dont see a problem with removing the remainder. Doing this would allow the current stadium to open up beyond its current boundaries into a new concourse area that replaces the current one, with the current concourse being used to house the stairwells that would be needed to allow fans, who sit in the respective locations, access to the 2nd and what would be 3rd tier. By closing only the entrances to the stadium off, the concourse would remain open in its current state, the fans would simply need to enter the stadium at an alternative entrance.

Having this extra, and higher structure, the roof and the supporting roof ring/cables could then be supported using some form of temporary support to the new part of the buildin, thus allowing the existing supports to be removed, and ultimately the recognisable part of the roof.

As this process slowly creeps it's way around the stadium, would it be feasable that a totally new stadium could be built around our current stadium, using it as it's core/foundation, while the exterior of the completed stadium would look completely unrecognisable compared with how it currently exists, and also have a completely different feel INSIDE the stadium.

 

[Rammy Blue]

your qualified...... with a statement like that! building a bigger higher roof & then expecting the existing supports to take the forces x god knows how much more??????????

sorry mate, no way on gods earth

removal of the complete roof before any new one above it & we will all be in the Gene Kelly stand for a season or 2

I never said the existing supports would be used! how can they if the new roof section will be higher.?!
the design means the inner web and cables would have to be left in situ, until the new higher ones are installed and attached to the existing ring at the sides.
Obv hard to explain in a few words, and there any many factors to overcome but it is def possible.
However I still wouldn't be surprised if a new stadium was built.

Don't panic fella, I understand exactly what you mean even if others don't.

And you are quite correct, I might add.

 

[jrb]

Aren't we forgetting one point about the roof? It may be a minor point, but it has been brought up with the club at various meetings regarding the atmosphere at COMS.

Because the roof is so high it retains hardly any sound/noise. Increasing the height of the stadium and the height of the roof would only make that situation worse. Surely a lowered roof to retain the sound/noise, so improving the atmpsohere, must be on the agenda of a redeveloped COMS?

TBH, the thought of adding a third tier around the rest of the stadium and increasing the roof height would be even more detrimental to the already poor atmosphere/acoustics at COMS. If that is what's going to happen?

 

[not my fault!]

Anything is possible if you have the money.... Oh wait we do.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

your qualified...... with a statement like that! building a bigger higher roof & then expecting the existing supports to take the forces x god knows how much more??????????

sorry mate, no way on gods earth

removal of the complete roof before any new one above it & we will all be in the Gene Kelly stand for a season or 2

I never said the existing supports would be used! how can they if the new roof section will be higher.?!
the design means the inner web and cables would have to be left in situ, until the new higher ones are installed and attached to the existing ring at the sides.
Obv hard to explain in a few words, and there any many factors to overcome but it is def possible.
However I still wouldn't be surprised if a new stadium was built.

If you meant to re-use the "cigar" supports that sit on the spiral staircase to support this new roof/cable system in any way then it would not work you would have to build a complete new structure to support it from the foundations up. The whole tension ring roof system forces are taken down to ground & is designed to take whats there not additional load.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thuonghieuhanghoa.com.vn/imgs/quote/9910716357.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thuonghieuhanghoa.com.vn/img ... 716357.pdf</a>

 

[goat boy]

I'm not sure that the front end of the roof would have to move that far. Bring it up only a few metres, reduce the rake to the rear to almost flat and you could raise the rear edge of the roof by maybe 10+ metres with a relatively small implication for the position of the cable net and the lateral forces acting upon it. In this layman's opinion, anyway ;o) Make the north stand tiers taller and deeper, nick some leg room but sit the base of the seats two inches higher... lot's of seats.

Surely the cable ring is only actually there to stop lateral/ upwards wind forces taking the roof off, anyway? Am I right in thinking it's not doing anything at all to negate the act of gravity?

Thinking outside the box a little bit... I was told Thaksin wanted to build a 'pod' under the roofline, and have that as the the big pull for hospitality seating. Closer to the pitch and high up. So the view would be fantastic and above the sight lines of the 2nd tier. It could still happen, I suppose, if the roof reinforcement was adequate.

 

[warpig]

Are we having a smaller pitch then? Or are they going down 2m vertically? Surely, there isn't enough room to dig down further and this would also cause problems for getting daylight to the pitch.

i'm not sure lowering the pitch by 2 metres, compared to the current levels of sunlight it gets, will have a huge effect on the sunlight the pitch gets, baring in mind the club already uses those light gantries during the night!

think we are down as low as is reasonably practicable at the minute. ie we have reached the upper plane of the water table. the water table can be lowered but cant see this been economical for a couple of rows of extra seats.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Aren't we forgetting one point about the roof? It may be a minor point, but it has been brought up with the club at various meetings regarding the atmosphere at COMS.

Because the roof is so high it retains hardly any sound/noise. Increasing the height of the stadium and the height of the roof would only make that situation worse. Surely a lowered roof to retain the sound/noise, so improving the atmpsohere, must be on the agenda of a redeveloped COMS?

TBH, the thought of adding a third tier around the rest of the stadium and increasing the roof height would be even more detrimental to the already poor atmosphere/acoustics at COMS. If that is what's going to happen?

Really good post. I think we should all really hope this is on the agenda, or even make noises that it should be.


Because of the roof at COMS, you need a lot of people at the backs on the stands singing for it really generate a noise. So the reeally big matches are OK, but the lesser ones poor.