Post Match Thread: City v Juventus

[borassic]

Thought we were poor but still created enough to win the game.

I just think we hold too much fear in Europe, we are more afraid about what they will do to us. Hate to say it but look at United down the years under red nose. They went out to beat teams their own way with two wingers and two strikers, they treated every team like they were below them and we should be doing the same. Man for man we are a better team than Juventus.

Pellegrini's first mistake last night was playing Nasri, it was clear we needed pace to hit them on the counter and get in behind when they had every man behind the ball. Nasri just slows the game down far too much as does Yaya at times. Do feel like we lacked somebody that could grab the game by the scruff of the neck and you'd expect someone as talented as Toure to do that.

Said before the game that we'd win the game if Bony won the battle against Chiellini and the Attacking midfielders got close enough too him, neither happened.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

What utter nonsense. People go on about the pace and power of the PL and continental teams being unable to deal with them, but then continental teams regularly deal with it with relative ease, like Juve and PSV did yesterday.

Aren't you the guy who was adamant that City would be signing Pogba?

I was also the guy who said we were signing Sterling and De Bruyne back at the end of May, unless you reckon that somehow inhibits by understanding of football in this country?

Italian teams do not come up week in, week out, against the general pace and ferocity of the English game. And they certainly don't need to go maximum strength on every occasion.

Juve rested six players at the weekend, why do you think that was? Perhaps they felt resting some would enable them to be fresher and deal more effectively with the physicality of an English opponent.

Juve and PSV doing it in one-off games against City and United isn't my point.

My argument is if Juventus were forced to play in our league, they would have to add seriously and much younger quality to withstand the various challenges of the English game.

There's a reason the Spanish, German and Italian leagues take breaks mid-season. Again, nobody can argue it does nothing but benefit their domestic and European programme.

I watched City absolutely bully and eventually dominate Roma last season. A team who has fared more than well in Italy in recent seasons, yet looked mid-table Prem fodder against us.

I have no issue people defending the merits of respective leagues, but to win a title in England is like nowhere else IMO.

 

[blue by birth]

Really thought we might do much better this season in Champs league but fair play to Juve . They did what we couldnt and took their chances ( albeit a wonder goal to beat us).

Positives were Fern looking immense again and a decent attendance.

Negatives were Silva looking out of sorts and Bony looking more like hes on strike than a striker.

We needed Navas for pace and i know he gets slagged off for final ball and finishing, but fuck me he does create lots of space and gives Sagna more cover.

Still think we will Qualify prob as 2nd placed team but we need Aguero to be fit and Silva firing on all cylinders.

Cheer up lads we will do West Ham and hopefully Arse N Chavs will draw .

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

We again looked more fluid and dynamic when KDB came on. I wish he had started instead of Nasri who slowed the game down again. Its clear that Yaya and Bony have an understanding and a couple of lay offs from Bony to him were close to coming off but no cigar, and the Juve defence became suddenly organised again. Sterlings finishing really needs to improve as well, and Im sure it will. All in all Im not that bothered, but wish we played at a quicker tempo in that game. At times we looked like last season again

 

[Pitchell]

I was also the guy who said we were signing Sterling and De Bruyne back at the end of May, unless you reckon that somehow inhibits by understanding of football in this country?

Anybody who has any awareness of Italian football would have told you early on in the window that Pogba was staying. This would indicate that you may have a vast knowledge of other leagues, but not of Serie A.

Italian teams do not come up week in, week out, against the general pace and ferocity of the English game. And they certainly don't need to go maximum strength on every occasion.

That's a nonsense statement based on lazy cliches and absolutely no evidence.

Juve rested six players at the weekend, why do you think that was? Perhaps they felt resting some would enable them to be fresher and deal more effectively with the physicality of an English opponent.

Juve rested six players and struggled against Chievo. Judging by last night's evidence, City would have done well to rest a couple of players to deal with Juve. Physicality has nothing to do with it, it's called squad management.

Juve and PSV doing it in one-off games against City and United isn't my point.

They're not one-off games, though. Look at how PL teams have performed in Europe over the past 3 years or so. It certainly doesn't warrant the superiority complex English fans express.

My argument is if Juventus were forced to play in our league, they would have to add seriously and much younger quality to withstand the various challenges of the English game.

Again, that's pure conjecture. Besides, Juve have added serious (and young) quality. Just because somebody like Rugani didn't cost £40m, it doesn't mean he has less quality than a Mangala, for example.

There's a reason the Spanish, German and Italian leagues take breaks mid-season. Again, nobody can argue it does nothing but benefit their domestic and European programme.

I somehow don't think that yesterday's results were down to a lack of a mid-season break, to be honest.

I watched City absolutely bully and eventually dominate Roma last season. A team who has fared more than well in Italy in recent seasons, yet looked mid-table Prem fodder against us.

City didn't bully Roma at all. The first leg was a very even match and Roma could easily have nicked it (as could City). City were the better side in the second match, but needed two late goals to win it. The truth is that if Roma hadn't conceded a sloppy last minute equaliser against CSKA in the previous match, City would have already been out at the group stage, so I don't think the bravado is warranted.

 

[Damocles]

Anybody who has any awareness of Italian football would have told you early on in the window that Pogba was staying

I have watched Serie A for 25 years and go over once or twice a year and didn't think Pogba was staying, and agree more with Tolm's analysis more than yours which I think is absolute nonsense

I really fucking hate people who come on here as single issue posters. Drives me daft.

 

[Rickaccurate]

So a day to calm down after a disappointing loss.
Juve were disciplined in midfield and contested everything we had going forward. Still we had chances and didn't finish. Their goals.... Perfect service for one
Perfect finish on the other.
All in all I feel it boils down to intensity.When we get going we are as good as anyone. Problem is when we don't we can be pretty darn average. Content with going with the flow. Losing intensity and getting scored on.
Maybe a different line up could have helped.(Navas) doesn't score but works very hard...
But that exact line up should be able to beat Juve at home more often than not.
Maybe we are offense first. Defense second. When we are frustrated offensively,our defensive intensity drops.
Except for Dinho he's pretty much on fire right now.

 

[Mattyc55]

Very frustrating night, agree with the likes of Damocles in his analysis of the game.

I think we're all just bemused as to why we can't just have one seemingly straightforward group campaign in this competition.. our home form and inability to keep clean sheets is also is extremely worrying when you consider that away goals count double in the latter stages.

Monchengladbach are in appalling form and could well end up being the group cannon fodder. I also have a feeling that Sevilla will nick something in one of their games against Juve and it won't be a case of one team running away with it, like Bayern usually do in our groups (which generally makes it easier to come second).

Sevilla are an excellent European side and will really push us all the way now in this group.

So annoying that one bad result can take the gloss off such a great start, the players just don't carry their A-game into the CL.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Yaya's usual "do fuck all" champions league performance.

Pellers needs to be man enough to stop selecting him.

I thought he and Fernandinho were two of our better players.

 

[Neville Kneville]

And City were miles away from Chelsea last year, who were knocked out of the CL by a 10-man PSG, who were then rolled over by Barcelona. Quite frankly, one of the downfalls of PL clubs in the CL over the past few seasons is their misplaced arrogance, thinking that just because they have spent lots of money they are automatically a better team and don't need to adapt tactically to their opponents. That's not how it works.

There are one or two teams who are better than the rest, usually Bayern, Real Madrid & Barca. Occasionally a vastly inferior team has a decent run, like Juve or Chelsea/Liverpool when they won it.

Juve are nowhere near as good a side as Chelsea & didn't play anything like as high quality football last night. The problem was, neither did City. Chelsea would have beaten us comfortably.

I'll mention Cudrado here. Utter garbage a few weeks ago, causing problems everywhere last night.

We were nowhere near it.

 

[TCIB]

Shame about the result, we do look like we belong more though this season. Juve kinda got away with that and i think they know it.
If we had been a bit sharper in front of goal...

Still we lost and that is not good but i am sure we will get through the group...well, confident we will anyway.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Well chelsea won the prem by 8 points last season and an even worse an rag team won it easily a few years ago. I really think they would win as they are tactically better than everyone else in the prem

This is where people like you have got everything completely arse about face.

You have to WIN the Premier League. You don't DRAW the Premier League you WIN it. Juve can't go round playing like that if they want to win, they can't rely on teams like Chelsea or even Newcastle being as stupid as City & letting them whack long balls over the top when they're a goal up. The goals they scored v us, Crystal Palace wouldn't have conceded. They would be defending it as if their lives depended on it.

The Champions League is a cup competition, where often a draw will do & you get a couple of unexpected bonus goals. For City, a draw is usually two points advantage to our rivals. Most weeks you have to win, against much tougher opponents than Juve will face.

 

[Kippaxblue5]

Pics and comments on the Juventus game are now online at
http://www.rtfract.com/citsep15.htm

 

[abu13]

The biggest problem for me last night was how we use Bony in our system, pretty much all last night he was recieveing the ball with his back to goal. This is a major differnce to how Aguero plays who is generally on the turn as the ball comes to him. As a result a forward ball to Bony was usually followed by a ball back into our midfield. All this did was to slow the game down.
I dont go along with posters who claim we were shite last night, we played a tough well organised and clinical Juve, three shots on goal and two goals. The second of which was unstoppable. We had our chances to put this to bed but it was just unfortunate that the fell to Sterling who needs to up his conversion rate to really achieve his full potential. In hindsight we should have done certain things differently. My biggest gripe was that the two goals that they scored happened as we were in the process of making substitutions, it made me wonder if the guys were fully concentrating at the time of wondering if they were going to be yanked.
We still have 5 games to play and need maybe 10 points to get through so it's not all over however last night was a missed chance to get grip on the group last night.

 

[HolisticJim]

I thought we played really well until they scored. After our goal we were right in their faces.

As with any team, when the opposition gets its tail up it becomes hard - and by their 2nd goal we have lost our captain and central defender; forced to play an unacclimatised CD who was out of position. No blame warranted.

If Otamendi had played 10 games or been here 6 months then fair enough but he hadn't.

For me, it doesn't detract from a good performance.

We let ourselves down by not taking our chances with Bony and Sterling.
I don't think Bony is good enough and Sterlings young and has very little CL experience. I think he'll get better at 1-on-1's in time.

Nothing performance wise to be down beat about in my view.

That said, I was a but surprised we didn't play KDB as I thought the CL was why we made him our record signing. Not soley the CL obviously but to make the difference when we are playing better teams.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Anybody who has any awareness of Italian football would have told you early on in the window that Pogba was staying. This would indicate that you may have a vast knowledge of other leagues, but not of Serie A.



That's a nonsense statement based on lazy cliches and absolutely no evidence.



Juve rested six players and struggled against Chievo. Judging by last night's evidence, City would have done well to rest a couple of players to deal with Juve. Physicality has nothing to do with it, it's called squad management.


They're not one-off games, though. Look at how PL teams have performed in Europe over the past 3 years or so. It certainly doesn't warrant the superiority complex English fans express.



Again, that's pure conjecture. Besides, Juve have added serious (and young) quality. Just because somebody like Rugani didn't cost £40m, it doesn't mean he has less quality than a Mangala, for example.


I somehow don't think that yesterday's results were down to a lack of a mid-season break, to be honest.


City didn't bully Roma at all. The first leg was a very even match and Roma could easily have nicked it (as could City). City were the better side in the second match, but needed two late goals to win it. The truth is that if Roma hadn't conceded a sloppy last minute equaliser against CSKA in the previous match, City would have already been out at the group stage, so I don't think the bravado is warranted.

I'm seriously flattered you went to such patronising efforts to try and make it sound like you know what you are talking about.

Firstly, I was responding to somebody else's claims about where Juve would finish in the Premier League.

You basically want it all ends up, refusing to acknowledge that a mid-season break isn't beneficial to continental teams, and how a lack of one would greatly impact Juventus and other Italian teams after domestic and Champions League competition resumes in the New Year.

Especially so, during an English winter, when a team in this country can easily play a dozen games between December and Jan 10th.

Your revisionism of the Roma second-leg game is also top-grade. Aside from the failed Arsenal player Gervinho going close twice in the opening 25 minutes, City took a stranglehold of that game long before Nasri scored.

In actual fact, without Yaya and Aguero, it was still only a City midfield of Fernando and Fernandino who took it in turns to hold or go.

And a performance from Nasri that bullied Roma all night.

As for Pogba and his status, I think I am pretty up-to-speed on that one, thanks.

 

[Marvin]

Anybody who has any awareness of Italian football would have told you early on in the window that Pogba was staying. This would indicate that you may have a vast knowledge of other leagues, but not of Serie A.



That's a nonsense statement based on lazy cliches and absolutely no evidence.



Juve rested six players and struggled against Chievo. Judging by last night's evidence, City would have done well to rest a couple of players to deal with Juve. Physicality has nothing to do with it, it's called squad management.


They're not one-off games, though. Look at how PL teams have performed in Europe over the past 3 years or so. It certainly doesn't warrant the superiority complex English fans express.



Again, that's pure conjecture. Besides, Juve have added serious (and young) quality. Just because somebody like Rugani didn't cost £40m, it doesn't mean he has less quality than a Mangala, for example.


I somehow don't think that yesterday's results were down to a lack of a mid-season break, to be honest.


City didn't bully Roma at all. The first leg was a very even match and Roma could easily have nicked it (as could City). City were the better side in the second match, but needed two late goals to win it. The truth is that if Roma hadn't conceded a sloppy last minute equaliser against CSKA in the previous match, City would have already been out at the group stage, so I don't think the bravado is warranted.

I think Tolmie was right.

Every week, it does not matter who we play, we could get beat, especially away from home. The Premiership is at a much higher general standard because all the clubs are well financed. You don't get 2 or 3 clubs dominating the league as you do in other leagues. This means that the top 3 or 4 clubs like City perhaps are not as good as their counterparts in Europe as they can't monopolise the talent in the league. And no way can we rest players at the weekend either. Not en masse anyway.

I don't think there is much difference between City and Juventus any more. Lots of observers will be able to use the result and say same old City under-performing in Europe but although City did not play a great game, it was a very close and tight game. I don't think any player or official of Juventus would say otherwise.

In previous seasons, City have played the best teams in Europe and got a lesson. Not last night. I thought we did OK. Not perfect, but any means but to use the result as a way of knocking MCFC or the Premiership would be wrong.

The Premier League has seen an influx of players. It stands to reason that the best football is now played in this league, but what it means is that the talent is spread around the league rather than concentrated at a handful of clubs.

I am not running down Juventus. I think City will be very hard pressed now to win the group. Great result from Juventus, and a good performance but if any observer thinks there is still a big gap between City and the elite of Europe then I think they are wrong, and will be proven wrong in time, maybe within this season.

We're quite used to proving people wrong and have done so almost every season for the last 5 years

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

I thought he and Fernandinho were two of our better players.

I honestly reckon Yaya's refusal to be mobile was what enabled Juve to fare so well despite having 2 up top. I'd have much rather seen nasri play in yaya's role last night, with someone else playing wide. The combination of Samir and yaya is far too stagnant.

With Juve sat in 2 deep banks, that game was crying for Yaya to burst forward at them. Something he didn't do once.

I reckon a combination of inexperience on that stage for Bony and Raheem mixed with playing Nasri and Yaya together put us at a severe disadvantage last night.

You cant begrudge Juve the two goals. Both were top class. However, how did our middle give Pogba all that time? That's either down to Samir or Yaya, and Pogba had a field day in that second half finding space the pair of them were too lazy to close down.

It was concerning that we couldn't convert our chances. In the premiership Bony slides that shot in 10 times out of 10. Sterling came close but should have gotten one of them. That happens. But in the champs league we cannot miss that many chances with the talent we have on the field.

Bony and Raheem desperately need to start finding the net in the prem and capital one cup.

 

[Marvin]

This is where people like you have got everything completely arse about face.

You have to WIN the Premier League. You don't DRAW the Premier League you WIN it. Juve can't go round playing like that if they want to win, they can't rely on teams like Chelsea or even Newcastle being as stupid as City & letting them whack long balls over the top when they're a goal up. The goals they scored v us, Crystal Palace wouldn't have conceded. They would be defending it as if their lives depended on it.

The Champions League is a cup competition, where often a draw will do & you get a couple of unexpected bonus goals. For City, a draw is usually two points advantage to our rivals. Most weeks you have to win, against much tougher opponents than Juve will face.

A lot of people have said City can't produce in Europe.

I think it's more a case of the opposition raising their game to a much higher level than they do in their domestic leagues, whilst City just play their normal game. Dortmund, Bayern and Juventus have come to City and played a really high intensity physical game in the midfield and their own defence where every player is immediately challenged, but to win leagues in the Premiership you have to go away from home and attack. Could they do that?

They reminded me of Chelsea when they won the Champions League. Great defensive team. They scored two very good goals mind you. But the hallmark of their game last night was workrate, and organisation. They'd have shut down Messi playing like that.

 

[Pitchell]

As for Pogba and his status, I think I am pretty up-to-speed on that one, thanks.

Well, clearly not.