Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[Damocles]

Careful, people have been thread banned for less.
So by your reasoning we should elect a tory lite labour govt that will also do fuck all for the needy. You are scared of change and scared to back your convictions so you moan about the left being cruel because we want a better social system. You are a pathetic specimen. Guess what einstein, there is only one way to get that system and it's the one you deride and say is cruel.
You need to have a think before posting more confused ramblings, in fact, dont bother replying to me, you are an ego driven, look at me moron, worse than a tory.

I don't say the left is cruel, I say the hard left who promise the vulnerable help and then go to an election knowing their policies aren't going to win are cruel.

You and all your knobheads keep calling me a Tory like this is a some sort of insult. You think a Tory is beneath you morally. This is yet another reason why you'll never win an election - because you hate 40% of the electorate and they know this too.

Turns out you can't constantly insult people then come round to an election and ask them to vote for you.

And those New Labour governments have done more for the needy than every socialist in the past quarter of a century put together. Because they were in Government and not a coffee shop.

So you hate the Tories, you hate the centre and the moderates and you hate the centre left. Who is it you feel you're going to win the election with?

 

[BlueHammer85]

All you non Labour members are starting to see the nastiness of the Momentum lot now. This is the third of them who has told me to leave the Party for not supporting their political position.

They want ideological purity and it's why they'll never win an election. They hate the middle class. They hate all of you. Len, Ken fumble - they're the types who feel empowered by this losing result and wouldn't piss on the middle classes if they were on fire. You only have to read their posts on here for the last few years .

On the plus side my councillor has just asked me if I'd be interested in getting more involved in the local CLP. So the local Party want me more involved and the Momentum lot want to kick me out for trying to win elections. Funny that. Might join Progress too, they seem to want to try and win.

All your doing on here though is putting Labour voters down for being optimistic, the total opposite I guess when you away from this forum.

 

[west didsblue]

All you non Labour members are starting to see the nastiness of the Momentum lot now. This is the third of them who has told me to leave the Party for not supporting their political position.

They want ideological purity and it's why they'll never win an election. They hate the middle class. They hate all of you. Len, Ken fumble - they're the types who feel empowered by this losing result and wouldn't piss on the middle classes if they were on fire. You only have to read their posts on here for the last few years .

On the plus side my councillor has just asked me if I'd be interested in getting more involved in the local CLP. So the local Party want me more involved and the Momentum lot want to kick me out for trying to win elections. Funny that. Might join Progress too, they seem to want to try and win.

The irony is half the momentum lot weren't even Labour Party members a year or two ago. Many used to be in the likes of the SWP or TUSC or other far left outfits and only joined the Labour Party because of the move to the left. Now they've got the nerve to tell long standing Labour members who don't agree with them to piss off.

 

[robbieh]

I don't say the left is cruel, I say the hard left who promise the vulnerable help and then go to an election knowing their policies aren't going to win are cruel.

You and all your knobheads keep calling me a Tory like this is a some sort of insult. You think a Tory is beneath you morally. This is yet another reason why you'll never win an election - because you hate 40% of the electorate and they know this too.

Turns out you can't constantly insult people then cone round to an election and ask them to vote for you.

So you hate the Tories, you hate the centre and the moderates and you hate the centre left. Who is it you feel you're going to win the election with?

I think the reality is just as the world moved to the right 35 years ago and took the centre with it there is a realignment going on.
And to be honest it is the only way capitalism survives in the long term.
Anything less and things would get ugly.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

I was commenting on the present NEC who were happy to cast people out, including fully paid up members on tenuous reasons, it was NOT Momentum.
The hostile position did not come from me, i merely responded to it. It will take it then, you are ok with hostile positions, as long as they agree with your views. It is a broad church and i have no problems with it.

You questioned the posters choice of being in the party. I actually agree with you that it is time to get behind Corbyn, including his critics in the party. The manifesto was radical but I could buy into most of it. The momentum people have also to real it in if unity is to prevail. From my reading you are more interested in 'told you so' than in unity. As for the other poster I understand his position but disagree with his position. If we have another election soon I believe our radical agenda could get popular backing. But if we do not get power then the experiment has failed.

 

[Damocles]

All your doing on here though is putting Labour voters down for being optimistic, the total opposite I guess when you away from this forum.

I'm putting Labour voters down for celebrating when they should be angry. We lost and now there's potentially 5 more years of austerity. The people who needed us to win this time around have been let down. That's just the reality of losing.

As mentioned, I did a decent amount of campaigning in this election in not just my own but a few neighbouring places too.

When I was door knocking, do you know what was a common thing I heard in this traditionally Labour working class areas? "I don't think any political party gives a shit about me and my family". It broke me heart a bit that - that many people on the lower end of the scale didn't know that traditionally Labour try to help them. When I ask them why they think that, their common answer was that because all the politics types - not just the MPs but the members aswell, hate each other more than they care about us.

And they're right, most of them do. And this should change. And we should be constantly reminding ourselves that that's who we're supposed to be working for and that's who we have a duty to set out electable positions for.

Give you an example. I think it would be great if we turned the EU into one big country. That would be smashing to me. I also want a well funded education system and police force in run down areas. I can't get the second thing if I campaign to the electorate with the first thing in my manifesto. So even if it's something that Id like to happen, I don't put it in there because the people who really need good schools are relying on me to get into power and make it happen, so tossing myself off on my dream policies is arrogance. The electorate don't want the first one and will vote against any manifesto with it in it.

Do you see now? Do you see the problem with these extremists celebrating their massive loss As some sort of win?

 

[Chippy_boy]

No they wont because no one believes the threat of them moving away anymore because there is far too much money to be made in this country.

Have you seen corporation tax levels elsewhere?

Are you referring to the 12.5% in Ireland, or the 9% in Hungary?

Or perhaps the European average of 19.7%? Or the EU average of 21.5%?

Big corporations structure their affairs to minimise their tax liabilities. The is an unfortunate truth, and although we might really try to change that, it's an ongoing battle. The only people lumbered with it, would be the smaller, domestic only employers. So punish the small businesses and favour the great big fat ones. Brilliant idea.

 

[blueinsa]

Are you referring to the 12.5% in Ireland, or the 9% in Hungary?

Or perhaps the European average of 19.7%? Or the EU average of 21.5%?

Big corporations structure their affairs to minimise their tax liabilities. The is an unfortunate truth, and although we might really try to change that, it's an ongoing battle. The only people lumbered with it, would be the smaller, domestic only employers. So punish the small businesses and favour the great big fat ones. Brilliant idea.

Why aren't Ireland and Hungary the bastions of capitalism then already and financial powerhouses?

You know why but insist on playing games.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

This is a really interesting look at voting patterns from the election. For example the tories gained ground in traditional working class Labour areas and lost ground in affluent areas and vice-versa for Labour. Politics as we always knew it might have gone forever.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...venge-of-remainers-to-upending-class-politics

The same happened int he US half a century or so ago. Prior to that, the Democrats were stronger than the Republicans in the South iirc.

 

[SWP's back]

Your assertion that a more moderate leader would have swept Labour into power is utter bollocks. In fact. I can't believe anyone could believe such tosh.

Labour nearly won because Corbyn energised so many people.

You're very very wrong.

And by your reckoning, the Tories nearly won in Scotland.