Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[mackenzie]

Please do. The tradgedy is just that. Incredible sad and I hope a full investigation is underway.

I will take your comment on cranes as a joke but cranes equate to jobs and new homes and investment. People who mock me should remember the hundreds of decent family man who were ringing me for jobs between 2007 and 2009 who were joiners and brickies and electricians and had no real means to support there families for those brutal years.

I am not saying things are great but they are not as bad as people are making out. My dad is a hero of mine and man born in collyhurst in the 30s - he laughs when he hears about austerity and toughness. Tells me he didn't have an inside bath until he was 15 and now sees kids with I phones at ten.

I firmly believe that we are on the right path with our economic policy. Sorry but I do.

My people were both Irish immigrants and/or came to Manchester from Cheshire as "ag labs" in the 1880s to work on the railways. Many of their descendants have done well for themselves since.
That's not the point though. There is an incredibly ruthless, and horrible, streak that runs through the Tory party that seeks to destroy anything that smacks of making life better for the poorer at a ground level. It's all about tightening financial belts at the cost of anything else, even lives.
I was raised by a Tory and a shop steward Socialist (God knows how they remained married for 50 years, but there you go). They had common ground on the important things though and it wasn't anything approaching what the Tory party of the last 40 years have stood for.
I think most of us on here are on that common and centre ground, and the truth is that the Tory party when they get really nasty need to be stopped.

 

[worsleyweb]

WTF is that supposed to mean?

You want a free ride or are you serious in thinking you're something special and should be treated differently to the rest of us?

Haha! Getting personal because I have made Some valid points you are struggling to answer. I absolutely do not think I am anything special at all. Quite the opposite.

I am not referring to me I am referring to thousands of small businesses who are the principle employers in this country - who if taxed and given less incentive to take risks will cut employment and wages.

I will keep it civil and debate even if you are struggling a little. I will overlook the little dig.

 

[worsleyweb]

My people were both Irish immigrants and/or came to Manchester from Cheshire as "ag labs" in the 1880s to work on the railways. Many of their descendants have done well for themselves since.
That's not the point though. There is an incredibly ruthless, and horrible, streak that runs through the Tory party that seeks to destroy anything that smacks of making life better for the poorer at a ground level. It's all about tightening financial belts at the cost of anything else, even lives.
I was raised by a Tory and a shop steward Socialist (God knows how they remained married for 50 years, but there you go). They had common ground on the important things though and it wasn't anything approaching what the Tory party of the last 40 years have stood for.
I think most of us on here are on that common and centre ground, and the truth is that the Tory party when they get really nasty need to be stopped.

Maybe some truth in what you say - would be better if there was a party a little more centre ground.

 

[blueinsa]

Haha! Getting personal because I have made Some valid points you are struggling to answer. I absolutely do not think I am anything special at all. Quite the opposite.

I am not referring to me I am referring to thousands of small businesses who are the principle employers in this country - who if taxed and given less incentive to take risks will cut employment and wages.

I will keep it civil and debate even if you are struggling a little. I will overlook the little dig.

Backtracking again I see but no real surprise there.

You clearly said "hard work and entrepreneurs"

Who does work hard in your opinion?

Do the millions employed and who pay tax via paye work hard? Do they do their bit?

Do you think small business owners work harder and do you think they should pay less on their incomes compared to someone employed?

As for your blackmail re them not taking risks and cutting employment and wages....dont make me laugh.

Not one of them is a charity and they employ the numbers they need to operate and make a profit and they will pay the minimum they have to in order to do so.

As for the tax they are paying......well you will have to ask their accountants on that one won't you?

 

[worsleyweb]

Backtracking again I see but no real surprise there.

You clearly said "hard work and entrepreneurs"

Who does work hard in your opinion?

Do the millions employed and who pay tax via paye work hard? Do they do their bit?

Do you think small business owners work harder and do you think they should pay less on their incomes compared to someone employed?

As for your blackmail re them not taking risks and cutting employment and wages....dont make me laugh.

Not one of them is a charity and they employ the numbers they need to operate and make a profit and they will pay the minimum they have to in order to do so.

As for the tax they are paying......well you will have to ask their accountants on that one won't you?

How have I backtracked? I said then as I said now it is not a good idea to tax hard work and entrepreneurship. No I am saying if someone takes a risk and makes good money they will il pay significant income tax. Remove the incentive to take risk by high taxation and employment suffers. Otherwise we might all as well get a job in the public sector.

Tax rates are the same for employers and self employed so I don't really get where you are coming from. I wa snot differentiating. Your post is pretty personal again and I want to avoid conflict for obvious reasons - so that's me done with you for tonight.

 

[Damocles]

Stop exaggerating. When I went to uni you can get part time jobs and summer jobs you know to help pay your way? Or is it mandatory that taxpayers have to pay for everything Fees, digs, booze money, Sky tv?

I'm not exaggerating. Courses now cost ~£10,000 a year. Maintenance loans on top are another £10,000 a year. That's £20,000 a year, and on a 5 year degree. Well I'm sure you can do those maths.

fees were free [when I went]

Oh so you're a hypocrite? You get free schooling but kids nowadays don't because fuck them.

Listen, if you just want free shit handed to you and don't want others to have the same benefit just say so. Don't try to wriggle around and try to form an incoherent argument about it.

 

[worsleyweb]

I'm not exaggerating. Courses now cost ~£10,000 a year. Maintenance loans on top are another £10,000 a year. That's £20,000 a year, and on a 5 year degree. Well I'm sure you can do those maths.

Which is part of the reason one of my daughters is not bothering with university but is doing hairdressing. I have done the maths and it is not worth her as a non academic getting in that level of debt to earn 25k as a graduate to then have that debt around her neck.

 

[kaz7]

Cuts have been brutal at my end,e.g the poor end,official figures show it and we know it,the rich are ok

 

[worsleyweb]

I'm not exaggerating. Courses now cost ~£10,000 a year. Maintenance loans on top are another £10,000 a year. That's £20,000 a year, and on a 5 year degree. Well I'm sure you can do those maths.



Oh so you're a hypocrite? You get free schooling but kids nowadays don't because fuck them.

Listen, if you just want free shit handed to you and don't want others to have the same benefit just say so. Don't try to wriggle around and try to form an incoherent argument about it.

What is the interest rate on a student loan?

 

[Damocles]

Which is part of the reason one of my daughters is not bothering with university but is doing hairdressing

Which is desperately sad.

If somebody wanted to be a hairdresser and went in that direction then that's great. But if somebody was forced into a career that they didn't want because their educational opportunities were limited by not having wealthy parents pay off their tuition then it's bollocks and a good example of social inequality.

Your daughter should be able to go to Uni and do whatever course she wants. The fact that economic background has caused her not to is yet another example of Tory social engineering.