Premier League investigation unit

Why would she win?

She made transphobic comments on a public platform and is now upset that a private business doesn’t want her as a customer any more.
This is the other side of the argument for me (which, to be honest, I haven't really settled on - I haven't really arrived at a conclusion). In the end Newcastle are a private company and they're allowed to select who they want to allow onto their property.

However, as much as what she's said is genuinely a bit deranged and the sign of someone so consumed by hatred - and social media - that she's sort of lost sight of reality, I do think she's been scapegoated and the feeling of being spied on is an unpleasant one. It's not really her being banned that people are concerned about, it's the way she's been banned.

If she was at a game and shouted "the Nazis were right" or "trans women are men" at a trans person in the crowd then there would be grounds for Newcastle and the police to get involved. But social media, as much as it's a public forum, has kind of hoodwinked us to believe that our profiles are places where we can express ourselves freely. That's not the case, obviously, but it can be easy to see why someone would fall for the ostensible security that social media profiles provide.

I think the worry, for all sides of the political spectrum, is that if there are rules to abide by in this case, it's worth keeping a careful watch on who gets to decide whether the rules have been broken or not. It's a transphobe today, it could be anybody else tomorrow. Newcastle's owners have a very, very bad record when it comes to matters pertaining to free speech.

As others have said, it's a bit of a slippery slope to ban somebody for hate speech from an environment where it's not really relevant. Premier League football stadiums should be a place to discuss Premier League football and until a player comes out as trans then it's not really relevant. Plus, there are people out there who have been convicted of hate speech in everyday life who are still able to come to games.

Like I've said already, I've not really settled on what the right conclusion is with this, but you can see why some people are a bit concerned.

However, I do think the concern people are expressing comes - at least in part - from their perception of transphobia, which is that it's either less serious than homophobia, ableism, racism, etc. or that it doesn't exist at all. And that trans people are getting a bit uppity and should therefore know their place and pipe down. It's exactly how mainstream society behaved towards "f*ggots" in the 80s or "P*kis" in the 70s or, taking it all the way back, "n*ggers" at any stage in Western (and bits of Eastern) human history before the 1960s.

We will eventually look back at this period of the culture war as a depressing one. But just like everyone who voted through Section 28, or agreed with Tory propaganda posters like this one (from 1987) or election drives like this one (from 1964), they'll pretend they never felt such a way once transphobia is acknowledged as a wrong. That doesn't make Newcastle's decision the right one but it's part of a much larger conversation society is having with itself.

I also think it's worth mentioning that Linzi Smith's comments have come to light in a week when two teenagers have been sentenced to a combined 42 years in prison for murdering a transgender teenager and, more specifically, wanting to "see if it screamed like a boy or a girl". Transphobia has been acknowledged as a motive during the sentencing and it's depressing to see Linzi Smith get more support and outrage in her favour (from some people on this forum) than a young girl who was viciously stabbed to death just for the crime of existing.
 
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Is there more to this? As in, was she known to the club for other issues before this incident?
It just seems OTT for a club to go to all that trouble to be honest.
 
Page 1, the original post has the story from the Telegraph and I have read other articles which back it up.
I cannot see how Newcastle can ban her and more importantly, why the PL investigated her.
I don’t subscribe to media outlets and everything else I have read is a bit vague on the details.
 
Some of the things she said were absolutely abhorrent and I'm not sure she'd be receiving the same support on here had she made the same comments in relation to disabled people, Jews, blacks, etc. She didn't offer thorough arguments about her gender critical views, she claimed "the Nazis were right" and that "trans ideology is Nazi", amongst a whole host of other ahistorical, nasty bile. At the moment it's just more acceptable to make vile statements about trans people, just like it was okay once upon a time to make prejudiced, derogatory marks about other marginalised groups. I also think Ms. Smith has been begging for while to get in on the GB News/Talk TV circuit and this is her window of opportunity. But it is unusual that Newcastle have been paying such close attention and waiting to get the police involved when it doesn't seem like her views would be relevant in a football stadium. I sit around people at City who I know don't have the most up-to-date views on certain matters, but we never discuss politics and society, we just chat about City and comment on the game. Then we go home. And, as others have said, what do Newcastle's owners think about trans people, or gays, or blacks, or journalists for that matter. An unusual case.
But why be banned from attending football games and not be banned from Tesco or Natwest?

The things she said have nothing to do with football.

There will be lots of football fans who have said things that are racist in person and online. If they weren't said in the context of football, they shouldn't be banned from attending football matches.
 
But why be banned from attending football games and not be banned from Tesco or Natwest?

The things she said have nothing to do with football.

There will be lots of football fans who have said things that are racist in person and online. If they weren't said in the context of football, they shouldn't be banned from attending football matches.
I've raised a similar argument in another post. In the end she's been banned from Newcastle and not Tesco because Newcastle and Tesco are both businesses who can decide who enters their premises at their own discretion.
 
The way things are going at PL matches and grounds I really wouldn’t be arsed if I was banned. It’s getting to a point where you are worried about posting or chanting anything to do with the PL games.
 
I’m surprised this needs to be said, but no one has been sanctioned for their “thoughts”.

Once you put those thoughts into writing they’re not thoughts, they’re speech.

Similarly it’s not big brother or the Stasi or infringing free speech unless it’s the government doing something.

A private business has the right to reject anyone’s custom as long as they’re not doing so based on discrimination against a protected characteristic.



I have to say I think 99% of the reaction to this is because it’s about transphobia. If it was about sexism or racism or any of the other things the PL unit is there to kick out of the game, everyone would just say she deserved to be banned.

Which is probably precisely why the telegraph has run the story, it’s one of their favourite culture war topics going into the next election (and a wedge issue the Conservative Party has publicly acknowledged it needs to push)
I could see it with racism - certainly if it crosses the line into a criminal offence. Not sure about sexism - I suspect it would have to include some element of violence to be considered uncontroversially controversial.

There must be hundreds of thousands of matchday fans who post on twitter and make very sexist comments (there are plenty on here). There are also plenty of comments on twitter that I'd consider racist, but which you're allowed to say. Both makes you an unpleasant person, but they're not criminal offences. Unless the comments are being made while at a football ground, or are strongly linked to a club (and not just by posting about the team on the same feed), then it's a very worrying development.

The one caveat I'd put in, is that, while comments in the article are clearly nowhere near breaking the law, someone on here did suggest they were the tip of the iceberg. As with the sexist stuff likely needing an element of threat, I wonder if there was something more.
 

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