President Joe Biden

[mancity1]

Agree we don’t see eye-to-eye on many things but I appreciate your thoughts and of course your top-quality taste in music! Non-profit work is very rewarding and I hope to do more of it as I near retirement from for-profit work.

We have a lot more in common I reckon than you think Fog , importance of family , friends , rational thought , pragmatic in thought , city followers , music lovers and a love of the better aspects of San Francisco.

We are both stubborn about things we are passionate about and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I am extremely impressed with your taste in music but for me far more impressed re your knowledge of musicality and how well you articulate it on this forum.

You make time to see any sense of reason with others you disagree with and if you cannot you say why and that is important IMO.

You are an advocate of free speech even though on occasion you can be unnecessarily harsh and IMO off point.

on occasion I am too cryptic and over complicated for you to see my point.

We both dislike Trump perhaps for different reasons and see him from different perspectives.

Outside family and friends my best moments have been to assist those less fortunate than me in a voluntarily than myself with in justice and advocacy in a meaningful way and empower them to do likewise to others.

if you are like me and have a passion for this you will do more and it will enrich your life in ways you never thought possible.

Again good luck with it.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

We have a lot more in common I reckon than you think Fog , importance of family , friends , rational thought , pragmatic in thought , city followers , music lovers and a love of the better aspects of San Francisco.

We are both stubborn about things we are passionate about and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I am extremely impressed with your taste in music but for me far more impressed re your knowledge of musicality and how well you articulate it on this forum.

You make time to see any sense of reason with others you disagree with and if you cannot you say why and that is important IMO.

You are an advocate of free speech even though on occasion you can be unnecessarily harsh and IMO off point.

on occasion I am too cryptic and over complicated for you to see my point.

We both dislike Trump perhaps for different reasons and see him from different perspectives.

Outside family and friends my best moments have been to assist those less fortunate than me in a voluntarily than myself with in justice and advocacy in a meaningful way and empower them to do likewise to others.

if you are like me and have a passion for this you will do more and it will enrich your life in ways you never thought possible.

Again good luck with it.

Open questions to you Mancity1...

1) Do you believe that Trump tried to overturn a free and fair election where he clearly lost in an attempt to remain in power - in other words to overturn the popular vote - to end Democracy in America? The evidence for this stance is overwhelmingly compelling; and

2) If you believe #1 above, why not post in favor of Biden? At least along the lines of, "Although I disagree with most of Biden's policies, he's pro-Democracy. Which outweighs my support for the current anti-Democracy, Republican party."

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Open questions to you Mancity1...

1) Do you believe that Trump tried to overturn a free and fair election where he clearly lost in an attempt to remain in power - in other words to overturn the popular vote - to end Democracy in America? The evidence for this stance is overwhelmingly compelling; and

2) If you believe #1 above, why not post in favor of Biden? At least along the lines of, "Although I disagree with most of Biden's policies, he's pro-Democracy. Which outweighs my support for the current anti-Democracy, Republican party."

Disliking Biden or disagreeing with his policies or worrying about his mental faculties or suggesting that he isn't the best option among Democrats from a future-of-the-party perspective -- I have no issue with someone holding those views, though I might be prepared to disagree strongly sometimes. I also might agree sometimes.

But you get to the fundamental question: in 2020, had you the choice, who would you have voted for between Trump and Biden? If it's any answer other than "Vote for Biden" for precisely the reason you say, then fundamentally there is either an intelligence, wisdom/experience or moral problem at play, one that had never been in play in that way in any Presidential election before. Period. And if Trump is the nominee in 2024, then the same question will be on the table, whether Biden or Harris or someone else runs against him.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Disliking Biden or disagreeing with his policies or worrying about his mental faculties or suggesting that he isn't the best option among Democrats from a future-of-the-party perspective -- I have no issue with someone holding those views, though I might be prepared to disagree strongly sometimes. I also might agree sometimes.

But you get to the fundamental question: in 2020, had you the choice, who would you have voted for between Trump and Biden? If it's any answer other than "Vote for Biden" for precisely the reason you say, then fundamentally there is either an intelligence, wisdom/experience or moral problem at play. Period.

Just so FogBlue.

Perhaps I could see a 2020 vote in favor of Trump - barely.

But now, following the 1/6 Capitol invasion, and the subsequent evidence that this and many other actions driven by Trump in an illegal attempt to remain in office at any cost (nearly so - he could have invoked the insurrection act and probably would have if he thought he could get away with it)...

Given all of this - any vote/support for Trump or for the party which he still controls - is a vote against Democracy - and is inexcusable among an informed electorate. To be sure though, I think that much of Trump's popularity owes to the misinformation stream coming out of Fox News and other outlets, to the point where the majority of Republicans somehow believe that the most fair and accurate election in American history was somehow rigged in favor of Biden.

And as you point out - it's one thing to disagree with Democratic policy and to support Republican policy. I've no problem at all with this.

But Republicans have crossed the line. The party - under Trump's control - no longer believes in Democracy at all. The party is all about getting its way no matter what - and those that oppose their views are variously misinformed, anti-American, or part of a devil worshiping cabal engaging in blood rites while practising pedophilia in pizza outlet basements... oh, and lest I forget, Jewish Space Lasers!

How on earth did a, "Jewish Space Laser" believer attain office in the US congress?

 

[mancity1]

Open questions to you Mancity1...

1) Do you believe that Trump tried to overturn a free and fair election where he clearly lost in an attempt to remain in power - in other words to overturn the popular vote - to end Democracy in America? The evidence for this stance is overwhelmingly compelling; and

2) If you believe #1 above, why not post in favor of Biden? At least along the lines of, "Although I disagree with most of Biden's policies, he's pro-Democracy. Which outweighs my support for the current anti-Democracy, Republican party."

Trump was a fool if not completely deluded for thinking he had won the 2020 election or at best although he would never admit it I suspect lost the election due to voter fraud and a fool for thinking he would or could do anything about overturning the result , he hates losing anything and in typical narcissistic fashion true to his character and behaviour he made the election loss all about himself and how others had cheated him.

Having worked in real estate for a long time I have albeit of course on a far smaller scale come across such individuals complete and utter sociopaths which is what Trump is , I don't like them I would recommend you avoid them like you would avoid the plague as many can get physically and mentally violent towards others to achieve their ends.

They can be charming when they want to but turn the complete opposite on a whim and a dime.

His absurd veiled efforts to convince his supporters that he had been cheated were just that but unfortunately some took it upon themselves to protest that false narrative in a ridiculous and in fact dangerous way in January.

In saying this the left biased media in the US didn't help they made Trump seem something to some that he was not , they got caught up in a game of cat and mouse where no one was going to end up with some dignity and respect.

I have no respect for Trump at all as a person or as a political figure but the American constitution allows for one to make a choice and that includes deciding to refrain from casting a vote at each election which millions of Americans that are eligible to vote chose to do every four years.

I was not the least bit surprised at the stance Trump took after he lost the election but his attempts again were flawed and stupid and would never succeed but as for ending Democracy in America if your definition of same if fair and free elections with one person having one vote then no I don't believe one man such as Trump will ever end that in the USA certainly not Trump.

I believe that the blue machine decided Biden was best equipped to defeat Trump but for what my opinion is worth Trump was his own worst enemy and was as much to blame for his election defeat if not more as the alternative was seen as a better choice as a fighter for democracy or not.

I am on the record here as saying that I am in favour of some of the foreign policy in the USA in particular their stance on China when it comes to geo -political stance under Biden and long may that continue.

There strategic alliance with Japan , India and Australia is vital for the Pacific region and it has to now be delivered upon.

I am not in favour on some internal policy he intends to implement while in office and I think both are not strong enough leaders to get the best for the USA in the present.

I wouldn't tarnish every Republican Party supporter as anti democracy but some are obviously anti the Democratic Party.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

@manciity1
Thanks for the response. I agree with or sympathize with everything you posted except for this with which I entirely disagree:

>>but as for ending Democracy in America if your definition of same if fair and free elections with one person having one vote then no I don't believe one man such as Trump will ever end that in the USA certainly not Trump.

I couldn't disagree more. Republicans writ large either do not believe in Democracy or mistakenly believe that Democrats have unfairly rigged elections.

No big deal you might think... except that the people in charge of overseeing elections are in numerous instances either elected or are appointed by Republicans. For example, Mesa county election official Tina Peters - indicted for election system breach - is currently running for office. And will likely win if she somehow manages to escape conviction:



Make no mistake. Democracy in America is under threat. It remains to be seen if corrupt election officials will lead to the overturn of popular - but I think that this outcome is, if not likely, is extremely possible.

And this is why - a vote in favor of a Republican candidate - is more-or-less with a few exceptions - a vote against Democracy - most often such votes (I hope) are misinformed - but many knowingly don't care about Democracy at all - anything is fine so long as they get their way.

 

[mancity1]

@manciity1
Thanks for the response. I agree with or sympathize with everything you posted except for this with which I entirely disagree:

>>but as for ending Democracy in America if your definition of same if fair and free elections with one person having one vote then no I don't believe one man such as Trump will ever end that in the USA certainly not Trump.

I couldn't disagree more. Republicans writ large either do not believe in Democracy or mistakenly believe that Democrats have unfairly rigged elections.

No big deal you might think... except that the people in charge of overseeing elections are in numerous instances either elected or are appointed by Republicans. For example, Mesa county election official Tina Peters - indicted for election system breach - is currently running for office. And will likely win.



Make no mistake. Democracy in America is under threat. It remains to be seen if election of corrupt election officials will lead to the overturn of popular vote in favor of Republicans - but I think that this outcome is, if not likely, extremely possible.

And this is why - a vote in favor of a Republican candidate - is more-or-less with a few exceptions - a vote against Democracy.

I wouldn't go that far myself BMATP but you are right about corrupt politicians in many spheres of influence including what we call here in OZ as branch stacking.

Our Victorian Labour government is rife with politicians who only get elected for office because the party the votes including having fake membership to jettison favoured or endorsed candidates into potential seats.

The state election itself is not so shrouded as to level the same accusation on a party to party basis however Labour have the unions and other influencers with large sums of money to throw at candidates including many staff on the tax payer funded bankroll to spend lots of time recruiting members to ensure they stay in power which I detest as I want staff to serve their constituents 100 per cent of the time not spend my tax dollars on branch staking.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I wouldn't go that far myself BMATP but you are right about corrupt politicians in many spheres of influence including what we call here in OZ as branch stacking.

Our Victorian Labour government is rife with politicians who only get elected for office because the party the votes including having fake membership to jettison favoured or endorsed candidates into potential seats.

The state election itself is not so shrouded as to level the same accusation on a party to party basis however Labour have the unions and other influencers with large sums of money to throw at candidates including many staff on the tax payer funded bankroll to spend lots of time recruiting members to ensure they stay in power which I detest as I want staff to serve their constituents 100 per cent of the time not spend my tax dollars on branch staking.

Cheers.

My take is that numerous corrupt election officials will be appointed/elected to office shortly - unprecedented in the USA - and that these officials will commit election fraud in 2022/2024, throwing out pro-Democratic results in favor of Republicans.

Come 2022 it's most likely that the majority in both houses of congress, and in the Supreme Court will be Republican. 2024 will quite possibly add the Presidency into the mix. Assuming that this occurs in 2024 - where will such unfettered power lead, especially under a possible Trump presidency?

Democracy in the USA might well die in 2024 if not in 2022.

 

[Bigga]

We have a lot more in common I reckon than you think Fog , importance of family , friends , rational thought , pragmatic in thought , city followers , music lovers and a love of the better aspects of San Francisco.

We are both stubborn about things we are passionate about and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I am extremely impressed with your taste in music but for me far more impressed re your knowledge of musicality and how well you articulate it on this forum.

You make time to see any sense of reason with others you disagree with and if you cannot you say why and that is important IMO.

You are an advocate of free speech even though on occasion you can be unnecessarily harsh and IMO off point.

on occasion I am too cryptic and over complicated for you to see my point.

We both dislike Trump perhaps for different reasons and see him from different perspectives.

Outside family and friends my best moments have been to assist those less fortunate than me in a voluntarily than myself with in justice and advocacy in a meaningful way and empower them to do likewise to others.

if you are like me and have a passion for this you will do more and it will enrich your life in ways you never thought possible.

Again good luck with it.

Wait, did I read "an advocate of free speech"??

Way too much sprinkling! LOL!

 

[mancity1]

Wait, did I read "an advocate of free speech"??

Way too much sprinkling! LOL!

I have no qualms if he placed me on ignore like many have but would be disappointed if he advocated to moderators they ban me which some have.

I never have and never will and those that seek to shut down others whose views they disagree with as I have with Fog in the past and likely to in the future are only dong themselves a disservice.