Priti Vacant has a plan, a deal with migrants plan.

[metalblue]

Given that the Deloitte day rate was 7K I'd say the vast majority of money was spent on 'consultancy' fees. You could almost justify it if it wasn't a complete failure.

It’s nothing short of a scandal. £43m on that app is a fucking joke. I don’t actually think this is “money for mates” either, if it was I could at least understand the rationale. But I think it’s worse than that, I really think it’s just plain incompetence and IT development firms knowing they could pluck any number out of their arse, along with the “consultants” knowing they could throw any number out there and they would be paid it.

You can bet your life that app was outsourced to India or somewhere. The firm who actually developed it probably got paid £500k tops, there is fuck all to it.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, any company posting excessive profits should be taxed at 100% on those excessive profits. Firms/people saw an opportunity, knew how incompetent government is, and took the fucking piss.

 

[metalblue]

We all love peace; we all love being able to afford the necessities of life; we all love crime-free streets; we all love to be able to go on holiday; we all love to feel we will be cared for when we are old or ill; we all want decent pay for a decent day's work...

Agreed, all very good points. But its our differences that define us as us, not our commonality.

 

[oldius]

Agreed, all very good points. But its our differences that define us as us, not our commonality.

Traditionally, yes, but as we look to a brighter future, we can understand our differences but build on the things that bind us.

 

[Vic]

I will advise you how "profligate" the WELFARE system is, because I know better than most how miserly it actually is.

As for gaming the system, have you any idea how difficult it is to game the system?

The whole WELFARE system is set up to make it as hard as possible to claim anything. If you see an advisor they are not allowed to tell you what WELFARE you can claim, you have to find out for yourself. Have you ever tried to claim anything from the WELFARE system?

The WELFARE system has evolved and Ian Duncan Smith made a complete mess of it. The clueless **** thought he had this wonderful idea of cutting WELFARE so people had to work, apparently to give people "dignity". Pray tell how sending a disabled person for a job that involves climbing ladders offers that person "dignity"

The word "benefit" is a huge misnomer, there is no "benefit" to being on WELFARE. WELFARE was originally designed do that when people came upon hard times they "fared well".

Ian Duncan Smith then came up with this argument that WELFARE would be targeted at those who needed it most. A noble idea if implemented properly, but it meant 5% fared better and 95% fared worse. I lost 27% of my WELFARE, yes I am disabled, I claim WELFARE. DLA (disability living allowance) was changed to PIP (personal independent payment) and new rules were brought in. You no longer got an award for life so you had the ludicrous occurance of a lad I know with one arm being sent for an assessment to see if his arm had grown back. I personally lost 27% of my WELFARE because I could open a bottle of water. And you think you can game the system.

I have been for assessments, they offer you assessments upstairs, you climb the stairs you lose your WELFARE.

My friend has MS, she worked as a child support worker for vulnerable children. She had a car on motability. She went for an assessment and because she could walk 10 yards, yes 10 fucking yards, she lost her high rate of PIP, because she lost her high rate, she no longer qualified for a car. Because she has MS she cannot use public transport a it is dangerous for her because MS gives her balance problems. She ended up losing her job because she could not get there anymore. The cunts took away her livelihood, they put her on unemployment welfare and she could no longer afford her mortgage. Plus the vulnerable children who she had spent time with building a rapport also suffered, all because she could walk the 15 yards from her front door to her car.

And you, you silly **** think you can game the system, all you have done is swallowed anecdotes in RW media aimed at demonising those people who are less fortunate than yourself and you have the fucking temerity to come on here and tell me to educate myself. Well fuck off you cannot educate me, I live the fucking system every day, I see the barriers put in place and i see the rise in disability hate crimes that have arisen because silly cunts like you believe a load of fucking nonsense.

I hope and I genuinely mean this that you do not have to navigate this disgusting excuse for a WELFARE system that exists in this country, because it is cruel, it is heartless and it makes ZERO fucking sense. But as long as the likes of yourself believe you can game the system, you can get free houses, 50 ft wide TVs and have 20 holidays a year to a villa you own in Tuscany then people like me, my friend with MS, my mate with one arm will continue to get fuck all apart from platitudes and a meagre amount to try and live on.

So I suggest you educate yourself on the WELFARE system and how it works, I suggest you stop listen to anecdote, start researching and find out for yourself the TRUTH behind the worst WELFARE system in EUROPE.

Even Ian Duncan Smith wants the £20 uplift in Universal Credit made permanent. Ian Duncan Smith thinks this lot are mean!

 

[Vic]

Erm, didn’t the majority of those things you cite occur when we were in the EU?

Anyroad the problem with the United States of Europe is that what countries hold dear to themselves are too varied. The Brits love the NHS, the French love their pensions and setting fire to shit, the Greeks love not paying taxes and owning big ships, the Nordic members love the environment and flat pack furniture, the Spanish love bailing out their football clubs and so on and so forth. All noble and honest causes (except the Spanish) but you’d never arrive at something that works particularly given the EU’s pertinence for giving everyone an equal voice.

The US it’s gives the impression of one country but it’s really a bit of an illusion - you have the federal and the state which results in widely different state laws - can you imagine if they tried to abolish some of the state laws and make law uniform across the country, would result in civil war.

First - yes, but they were not the fault of the EU (which is what the Tories have pushed to distract from their austeriry policies, which are still there).

What's your point about the rest? That a Scottish crofter has the same "dear" interests as a City banker? Or that someone on benefits in a rented property has the same interests as a pensioner in a now-too-big house with mortgage paid and moaning about Council Tax going up because the Tories have cut grants to the Council (but still blaming the Council)?

 

[Rascal]

ov
Anyroad the problem with the United States of Europe is that what countries hold dear to themselves are too varied.

The problem with the United States of Europe was it never existed.

If the option of the EU becoming the United States of Europe was on the Referendum ballot I would have voted for it, Because the options were status quo or leave, I abstained and later became a supporter of leave because the status quo was untenable unless it became the United States of Europe.

A United States if Europe, fully integrated, a single currency, elected President, European wide political parties, a USE army, navy and air force, a USE central bank and a USE wide healthcare and tax system, fully integrated transport network all run from a USE Parliament elected by the people of the USE would have had my full support.

Overnight immigration would almost have disappeared, people of all the USE nations would be governed under the exact same laws, taxed at the same rates and policed in the exact same fashion. Freedom of movement and capital would not exist because we would be one nation just like the four countries of the UK are one nation. People would be free to move whether they liked within the borders of the USE and the USE parliament could decide on immigration policy for the whole of the USE.

National parliaments would be downgraded to regional assemblies and further devolution would be given to the regions of those nations, Catalonia, Wales, the Basque country, Silesia, Sudentland, South Tyrol and others would have a certain amount of autonomy under the USE.

The USE would then be a major world power that could compete on an even footing with China and the USA, it would be an economic powerhouse. It could become the world leader on green issues, fighting climate change, levelling up the whole of the USE so it could compete against the other power blocs.

This country though lacked the vision to explore this possibility, it lacked the conviction to get the other nations involved because we were always under the idiotic illusion that somehow the UK was exceptional, it was special, we are not, we are small Island off the shores of a continent with limited resources and falling influence.

 

[metalblue]

First - yes, but they were not the fault of the EU (which is what the Tories have pushed to distract from their austeriry policies, which are still there).

What's your point about the rest? That a Scottish crofter has the same "dear" interests as a City banker? Or that someone on benefits in a rented property has the same interests as a pensioner in a now-too-big house with mortgage paid and moaning about Council Tax going up because the Tories have cut grants to the Council (but still blaming the Council)?

No that wasn’t my point at all. My point is countries all have “untouchable” parts of their domestic system that it would be political suicide to not put front and centre. It’s fairly easy to work it out, just look at where countries spend the bulk of their public expenditure.

For us it’s the NHS, for the French it’s education and their state pensions, for the Germans I believe it’s their out of work benefits and so on and so forth. As a United States of Europe you would simply not be able to maintain the priorities of the Germany and France let alone the rest of the bloc. So who gives up their national priorities? and how do you manage the resentment that creates. Unless you think it’s only us brits that have nationalistic tendencies!

 

[Vic]

No that wasn’t my point at all. My point is countries all have “untouchable” parts of their domestic system that it would be political suicide to not put front and centre. It’s fairly easy to work it out, just look at where countries spend the bulk of their public expenditure.

For us it’s the NHS, for the French it’s education and their state pensions, for the Germans I believe it’s their out of work benefits and so on and so forth. As a United States of Europe you would simply not be able to maintain the priorities of the Germany and France let alone the rest of the bloc. So who gives up their national priorities? and how do you manage the resentment that creates. Unless you think it’s only us brits that have nationalistic tendencies!

France has arguably the best health care in the world. I think you've been misled by some stats that don't count it as national expenditure, but it's 15% of government spending.

 

[crazyg]

France has arguably the best health care in the world. I think you've been misled by some stats that don't count it as national expenditure, but it's 15% of government spending.

Don't forget also that the French citizens pay a higher rate of income tax, and substantially more in their version of NIC to pay for these pensions, which, I believe , are based on 65% of final salary.
I looked into this several years ago, when we were seriously considering moving there. Sadly, my wife died (ironically in France), and I'm now a grandad, so holidaying there (eventually) is the nearest I'll get.
I would have still kept in contact with Bluemoon, but would probably be commenting in a slightly different way.

 

[Rascal]

No that wasn’t my point at all. My point is countries all have “untouchable” parts of their domestic system that it would be political suicide to not put front and centre. It’s fairly easy to work it out, just look at where countries spend the bulk of their public expenditure.

For us it’s the NHS, for the French it’s education and their state pensions, for the Germans I believe it’s their out of work benefits and so on and so forth. As a United States of Europe you would simply not be able to maintain the priorities of the Germany and France let alone the rest of the bloc. So who gives up their national priorities? and how do you manage the resentment that creates. Unless you think it’s only us brits that have nationalistic tendencies!

Manchester has different priorities to Maidenhead , Wigan has different priorities to Wycombe, Aberdeen has different priorities to Abersoch, Belfast has different priorities to Bristol and so on.

You use devolution of powers and decentralisation of treasury spending to the those disparate area's so they can concentrate on what there specific needs are. It works, it is happening now in Manchester where this Government much to its credit has given part of the Health budget to Manchester and instated metro Mayors with the power to decide where Manchester's priorities lie because our priorities are different to Maidenheads.

There is no reason apart from political will that model could not be expanded so that the priorities of Madrid, Munich and Milan all had the same as Manchester.

The best way to tackle Nationalism is through Localism, give local people the democratic power to decide what is best for their communities. Of course we could still be separate nations and support England v Estonia or Germany v Greece at sport, but we do that locally now as we support Manchester City v Mansfield. Their is nothing wrong with being proud of your identity, but we all have multiple identities, I am a Salford born, City supporting Mancunian, who lives in Cheadle, I am English, British and why not European too, because I do live in Europe.

The only people who would resent it are outright Nationalists, people who do think they are exceptional and think somehow there identity is more special than somebody else's, but when you break identity down they are not, they are products of their local environment so return power to local environments and they can be proud of there own environment, their local town, their local City, their County, their Country, their Nation and their Continent.

We are all human beings, we thrived as a species because we co-operated with each other, we traded with each other, we exchanged ideas, we told stories, we didn't thrive by being insular, uncooperative , silent and protective.