Queen Elizabeth II

[SJT]

Not sure it’s the “woke” that are calling for his cancellation, to be fair.

Personally, I think he should have been off air a few years ago, he’s clearly got issues.

No, I know it's most definitely not the ‘woke’ warriors that want him removed.

 

[Grassland Blue]

If you liked that, you'll love this....

These people are just chancers.
Trying to get some kind of financial reparations from a different time, long passed.
On that basis, I think us Brits are entitled to something from the Vikings and the Romans, amongst others.
Just imagine if there had been no British rule established in those far off lands, how poor would those countries have been?
Parts of Africa are in chaos since the recent violent uprising against the British.
These people want their nonsense shutting down.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

No, I know it's most definitely not the ‘woke’ warriors that want him removed.

Afternoon, Worsley.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Aimed at the host, I trust?
Otherwise, bit harsh!

Who else would it be aimed at ffs?!

 

[Blue and true]

Um... wow.

It seems all rather odd to try use the Empire as a stick to beat the Queen - it's not like some past actions has been acknowledged as being awful, or as if the Queen ordered it herself.

The host didn't much like the jab about US and slavery, and the "look at them, not at us" was amazingly transparent.

Are you actually taking the piss? Yes, let's not use Empire as a stick to beat the Royal Family. You do realise the Royal Family are the last remaining vestige of the heinous British Empire? The Queen wasn't personally involved, no, but her death has reopened wounds, as it always would. There's a reason apathy and even resentment is growing in several commonwealth countries and they want to jettison all attachments.

The term "Royal Blood" should be offensive to any right-minded person. It's a term that basically says, "they are better than you, regardless of transgressions, regardless of ill-manner, regardless of any moral defect, they are better than and they will always be better than you, because their bloodline says so, and they will always have the power. They are untouchable." I mean, I've just read that some are having their loved ones funerals cancelled on Monday. How would you feel if that was your family member?

I'm proudly republican, and no amount of undiluted propaganda is going to change that.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Are many people descending on London and Edinburgh?

I haven't seen an estimate into 5 figures for Edinburgh yet. The crowd is 3 or 4 deep at the very end, most of it is 1 deep. In a city with a metropolitan area population of 1 million. I would imagine 10x as many people would turn out for a Hearts trophy parade.

Over 1 million people turned up to the stop the war march in 2003. That was an issue people cared about. <10,000 people outside Buckingham Palace in a nation of 70 million? No.

I'm not sure loyal subjects mourining the queen outside Buckingham Palace was even the biggest crowd event in London this weekend, the Chris Kaba march had thousands of people in it too.

Just forecast figures I've seen in the media to be honest . But I wouldn't be surprised if 200,000 turned out to pay respects to the Queen Mum.

 

[mexico1970]

Are you actually taking the piss? Yes, let's not use Empire as a stick to beat the Royal Family. You do realise the Royal Family are the last remaining vestige of the heinous British Empire? The Queen wasn't personally involved, no, but her death has reopened wounds, as it always would. There's a reason apathy and even resentment is growing in several commonwealth countries and they want to jettison all attachments.

The term "Royal Blood" should be offensive to any right-minded person. It's a term that basically says, "they are better than you, regardless of transgressions, regardless of ill-manner, regardless of any moral defect, they are better than and they will always be better than you, because their bloodline says so, and they will always have the power. They are untouchable." I mean, I've just read that some are having their loved ones funerals cancelled on Monday. How would you feel if that was your family member?

I'm proudly republican, and no amount of undiluted propaganda is going to change that.

Take a deep breath pal, you're not going to get your republic you're just going to have a nasty turn.

 

[bobmcfc]

My point always was that the country just isn't in mourning. It isn't. It's a false narrative. A small percentage maybe are, but I absolutely categorically do not believe that anything more than a tiny percentage of this country has had their mood or day to day life affected or shifted for more than ten minutes. I've got no doubt some of you are still glued to the coverage, welling up over montages, but I genuinely believe they're few and far between. The fact that the vast majority were pissed that football was cancelled is a pretty good indicator to me, plus once again, absolutely loads of (admittedly anecdotal) social interactions where the queen could have come up in conversation loads, but didn't. I can't prove it, like you can't the other way, but I believe it.

Ultimately, a very old lady died. No one is shocked by this, so what more is there to say for most people after the initial 'that's sad' stuff on Thursday/Friday? Nothing. Hence why the topic of conversation is no longer an interesting one and why maybe it isn't being brought up...as there is just not really much else to say other than these type of 'the monarchy is good/bad' convos.

It isn't a none event its history in the making. Just as Alfred the Great, Henry they eighth, Victoria, Elizabeth etc, these people's lives and deaths will be studied by future generations.

You might think it's stupid but these kings and queens shaped our very existence going back hundreds and hundreds of years, What we do today, how we live , our traditions ? They pay tribute to everyone who has made sacrifices for king, queen and country in battle or personally lost loved ones in wars because they believed in this country and what it stood for. For the king's, who fought or died in battle, for their decisions that moulded our society and kept us safe. We are quite lucky today that those sacrifices paid for the freedoms we enjoy today.

Of course they weren't all the best of monarchs and some were shitty but we are who we are because of the parts they played. We have great history, a dark history and many stories to tell but if you can't even cope with 1 postponed football match to celebrate 93 years of someone's magnificent life packed into 10 measly days then there really is nothing I can say to you.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Ultimately, like all debates, the truth will lie somewhere in the middle.

The Queen will get a magnificent send off, with millions watching on. A fair proportion of which won’t be arsed about the royal family, but want to witness an historic moment.

Some folk will be chatting about the death and royal family, others won’t. Neither is wrong. Life carries on regardless.

 

[domalino]

It isn't a none event its history in the making. Just as Alfred the Great, Henry they eighth, Victoria, Elizabeth etc, these people's lives and deaths will be studied by future generations.

We study those monarchs because they actually ruled countries and decided history. They were Head of state and PM and generals all in one. You cannot study the history of Britain in the 15th century without it revolving around Henry VIII not least because the Royal courts were the only people keeping notes of what was happening.

That's a method of categorising history that's been outgrown a long time ago. No one studies George VI, they study WW2 and Churchill.

When people study history from 1952-2022 they won't be studying QE2's reign, they'll study Thatcher, Blair, The Falklands the rise of islamic extremism and the gulf wars.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

We study those monarchs because they ruled countries and decided history.

That's a method of categorising history that's been outgrown a long time ago. No one studies George VI, they study WW2 and Churchill.

When people study history from 1952-2022 they won't be studying QE2's reign, they'll study Thatcher, Blair, The Falklands the rise of islamic extremism and the gulf wars.

Paddington and James Bond aside, of course.

 

[Keeper!]

Are many people descending on London and Edinburgh?

I haven't seen an estimate into 5 figures for Edinburgh yet. The crowd is 3 or 4 deep at the very end, most of it is 1 deep. In a city with a metropolitan area population of 1 million. I would imagine 10x as many people would turn out for a Hearts trophy parade.

Over 1 million people turned up to the stop the war march in 2003. That was an issue people cared about. <10,000 people outside Buckingham Palace in a nation of 70 million? No.

I'm not sure loyal subjects mourining the queen outside Buckingham Palace was even the biggest crowd event in London this weekend, the Chris Kaba march had thousands of people in it too.

How many of those going are going as historical tourists?

If I was in either of those Cities I would probably go, to pay respect but mainly to witness without doubt a huge historical moment in time.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I live in Ramsbottom, which is a relatively traditional area. Tory MP. Went heavy on the jubilee etc. I was expecting there, if anywhere, would feel sombre and show signs of real grieving. Literally nothing has changed. Everyone acting normal. No bunting, no pics of the queen. Shops open. Staff, old and young, wittering away as friendly as ever, acting normal. The country absolutely isn't in mourning. Some are, Im sure, but for the vast majority life is identical. Not spoke to a single person yet who's brought it up in conversation since Thursday. In truth, the press is acting how they feel they're expected to act and projecting that onto the wider public, when in truth they're expressing the feelings of the vast minority.

What? It’s all anyone has talked about since Thursday morning. Have you left the house?

 

[mexico1970]

How many of those going are going as historical tourists?

If I was in either of those Cities I would probably go, to pay respect but mainly to witness without doubt a huge historical moment in time.

Some people would like to think it's not historic but you're right it is, and witnessing history would be great for tall tales in 50 years when people say "I was there".

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

What? It’s all anyone has talked about since Thursday morning. Have you left the house?

That simply can’t be true.

Someone might have had an excess weight in the bagging area. They will have spoken to an assistant to sort it out, making your point incorrect.

 

[domalino]

How many of those going are going as historical tourists?

If I was in either of those Cities I would probably go, to pay respect but mainly to witness without doubt a huge historical moment in time.

Agreed, and they've given everyone the day off as well to ensure attendances are respectable.

I'm not saying there will be no one there, but "crowds descending on London" like nothing else was the metric Churchlawtonblue wanted to use to gauge how much people cared about the monarchy.

I was simply replying to point out that the crowds thus far have not been that significant compared to other events.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Some people would like to think it's not historic but you're right it is, and witnessing history would be great for tall tales in 50 years when people say "I was there".

We’ll be on the next King by then. Maybe Charles death will trump QE2’s after that as it would have recency bias.

 

[abu13]

I find it quite staggering how little respect some people have for the Queen and what she did over the course of her reign. In my humble opinion I am quite happy to go with the mourning period for arguably our grestest ever Monarch.

The eyes of the world are on the UK and the pomp and ceramony that go with this sad time.

Society has been decimated over the last 50 years with a lack of respect for traditions, values and doing the right thing. We wonder where things have gone wrong and then watch on as people belittle the history that is being played out before us.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Agreed, and they've given everyone the day off as well to ensure attendances are respectable.

I'm not saying there will be no one there, but "crowds descending on London" like nothing else was the metric Churchlawtonblue wanted to use to gauge how much people cared about the monarchy.

Aviva will have to try and get another train or two per hour to ensure a bigger turnout.

 

[Blue and true]

Take a deep breath pal, you're not going to get your republic you're just going to have a nasty turn.

You're right mate, I won't see a republic in my lifetime. But it'll happen, eventually. And maybe it'll be my great-great grandchild voting for, in modern democratic process, a president; and not being forced to bow down to a morally bankrupt, freeloading, unelected leader.