Racist Chanting

[andrewmswift]

Not read the entire thread but Samuels piece in the Fail is very good. Some of the examples he uses to illustrate the issues in Russia are quite mind boggling.

link?

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

Not read the entire thread but Samuels piece in the Fail is very good. Some of the examples he uses to illustrate the issues in Russia are quite mind boggling.

link?

Maybe we should give them another tournament. That’s what those boneheads need. More love. UEFA presented Moscow with the Champions League final in 2008, FIFA handed Russia the 2018 World Cup, what else is there?
The European Championship, of course, but that went to Ukraine in 2012. There were fears about racism before that event, too, and they proved groundless. Those who insisted that by welcoming foreigners and foreign footballers — some of them black — Ukraine’s right-wing extremists would be introduced to multiculturalism and racial tolerance swiftly claimed the moral victory.
So how did that work out? Well, last month — little more than 12 months after the tournament ended — FIFA decreed that Ukraine would have to play a World Cup qualifier behind closed doors due to racist chanting and racist banners displayed in a match against San Marino on September 6. Then FIFA’s resolve crumbled and the ban was lifted. So that showed them.

It has been much the same in Russia. FIFA has addressed the problem of racism there head-on, by awarding the country the most important football tournament in the world, no strings attached. UEFA earlier gave it the most prestigious match in the European calendar.
Considering recent events, it is almost as if this is sending the wrong message. It is almost as if tolerating extremists does not make extremists more tolerant. The nut jobs are winning; or at the very least they are carrying on regardless.

The same flawed logic abounds. A statement by Russia’s World Cup organising committee released yesterday peddled a familiar line. Responding to the racial abuse suffered by Yaya Toure in the match between CSKA Moscow and Manchester City, it became clear we are once again going to flatter the racists into submission. We are going to allow them to host a global celebration of football watched the world over. See how they like it then.
‘It is worth restating that all stakeholders in Russian football have made it clear there is absolutely no place for any type of racial discrimination or abuse in our game,’ the Russian statement read.
‘Football is uniquely positioned to educate fans in combating this global issue. The 2018 World Cup in Russia, in particular, can act as a catalyst to positively change the mindsets and behaviour across Russian football over the next four years.’

Yet there is a place for racial abuse and quite often it’s Moscow. In 2011, Emmanuel Emenike, a Nigerian playing for Spartak Moscow, was fined $10,500 (about (£6,500) for putting his middle finger up at Dynamo Moscow fans who were making monkey noises at him.
To be fair to the Russian authorities, both clubs were later fined for the behaviour of their supporters, who were throwing snowballs at each other and the players. No action was taken over the racist abuse, just as no action was taken against Lokomotiv Moscow when a banana was aimed from the VIP area at Christopher Samba.
See no evil, hear no evil, that is the Russian way on racism. On Thursday, CSKA wheeled out striker Seydou Doumbia, a team-mate of Toure’s with Ivory Coast, who was under no pressure at all to say the following: ‘I didn’t hear anything like that from the CSKA fans. Yes, they’re always noisy supporting the team and try to put as much pressure as possible on our opponents, but they wouldn’t ever allow themselves to come out with racist chants. My Ivory Coast colleague is clearly exaggerating. Please take those electrodes off my testicles now.’
Actually, that last part is made up. Doumbia didn’t really have electrodes on his testicles. Not literally, anyway. Metaphorically, you decide. Put it this way. Imagine if Doumbia had heard monkey chants and had confirmed Toure’s accusation. How comfortable would his life then be as a footballer with CSKA Moscow?
The club’s deputy media manager, Michael Sanadze, had already made his open-minded position clear. ‘There is no subject to discuss,’ he announced. ‘Nothing special happened.’
By Russian standards, that may be true. Yet this manner of outrage is what occurs when football’s world leaders choose to do business with unpleasant people, as FIFA in particular do all the time. In April, Jerome Valcke, FIFA’s general secretary, openly admitted a preference for dealing with countries that are less free.

‘I will say something which is crazy, but less democracy is sometimes better for organising a World Cup,’ said Valcke. ‘When you have a very strong head of state who can decide, as maybe President Vladimir Putin can do in 2018, then that is easier for us as organisers than a country such as Germany, where you have to negotiate at different levels,’

We can only shudder when imagining the German regime that would have suited FIFA best, with its strong head of state making decisions without recourse to checks and balances.
The problem with authoritarian government, however, is that it tends to be a little less given to introspection. So small matters of racist chanting by massed banks of white, shirtless skinheads are not taken asseriously as they should be.
It is around this moment when we have to add that English football is not perfect, either. And it isn’t.
Yet, as a senior Football Association executive once pointed out, racism at football grounds in England has been addressed so aggressively that one case, one inappropriate gesture, makes headline news.
There are some countries, some clubs, where entire stands are indulging in regressive behaviour, as appeared to happen at CSKA’s Khimki Arena. Yet black FIFA executives did not support England’s bid for the 2018 World Cup and Russia won by a landslide because FIFA see it as a lucrative new market, ripe for exploitation.

There are some countries, some clubs, where entire stands are indulging in regressive behaviour, as appeared to happen at CSKA’s Khimki Arena. Yet black FIFA executives did not support England’s bid for the 2018 World Cup and Russia won by a landslide because FIFA see it as a lucrative new market, ripe for exploitation.
So let’s not pretend to be shocked. When Toure says African footballers should boycott the 2018 tournament, he might start his protest simply by asking those at the helm of African football exactly which bid won their support and why.
In August 2010, as the vote on the hosting of the 2018 World Cup drew nearer, Nick Clegg got in terrible trouble for describing England’s bid as unbeatable. It was perceived as a terribly arrogant statement at a time when the idiots in charge of England’s campaign were in full Uriah Heep mode.
Meanwhile, Alexei Sorokin, head of the Russian host bid, was glibly explaining away the banner held up by supporters of Lokomotiv Moscow following the departure of Peter Odemwingie to West Bromwich Albion. Against a drawing of a banana, it read: ‘Thanks West Brom.’
‘I know that this banner applied to a certain player and to the manner of how he played in his last matches,’ said Sorokin.
‘Apparently fans were not happy with the fact that he plays better for Nigeria and worse for the club. There is nothing racial in it. If there would be another player — from Russia, Denmark, Norway or Japan, for example — the reaction could be the same. In Russia “to get a banana” means to fail a test.’
Well, it did. The Moscow-based SOVA Centre for Information and Analysis says the phrase was used during the time of the Soviet Union and has subsequently all but disappeared. Maybe the Russian Football Federation know more about the evolution of language than SOVA, however, for it took no action against Lokomotiv or their fans.

Indeed, Sorokin confirmed that, when FIFA visited before awarding the 2018 World Cup to Russia, they did not discuss the issue of racism at all.
Maybe Toure and his fellow black professionals would like to put it on FIFA’s agenda now by boycotting all FIFA race-related initiatives. You know, the ones Sepp Blatter organises when he wants to come over all presidential.
UEFA, too. This is, don’t laugh, UEFA’s Football Against Racism in Europe Action Week. Basically, it is the time when UEFA command the players to get together and armband and pennant racism into submission. And how forlorn that little ring of material looked on the left arm of Toure as he helplessly implored referee Ovidiu Hategan, of Romania, to take note of the noises around him.
Still, it isn’t just armbands that UEFA use to combat racism. There are slogans, soundbites and banners, too. And how else did UEFA mark Football Against Racism in Europe Action Week (the acronym of which is not BULLSHIT but, let’s be honest, it should be). They downgraded a punishment against Lazio for the racist behaviour of their fans from total ground closure to partial. Action stations, indeed.

What never seems to cross the minds of those who bestow football’s great gifts is that it might make a difference if racism was seen to have a powerful and damaging consequence. That, instead of giving Russia’s sizeable minority of right-wing boneheads a World Cup in the hope that it will correct their behaviour, they might try not giving them the World Cup — and announcing the poor treatment of black players as the motivation behind that decision.
That way President Putin might ask questions of bid chief Sorokin, and bid chief Sorokin might have to take on the clubs, and the clubs the racists, and with responsibility will come modification.
Alternatively, we can carry on meeting racism with armbands and trite slogans; we can continue selling out young black men to the highest bidder; and ignore the voices that tell us something is terribly, terribly wrong.
If this were an exam, the organisers would get a banana. And if there were real justice it would be left to Toure to decide where to put it.

RACISM CRIME SHEET
Cameroon centre back Andre Bikey was racially abused while at Lokomotiv Moscow from 2005 to 2007. Bikey said: ‘There is racism from the stands, but I was physically attacked in the street. People attacked me when I was with my wife or mother.’ Bikey bought a gun for protection.
During a 2008 UEFA Cup clash, Zenit fans in masks hanged a toy monkey in the shirt of opponents Marseille and another wore a Ku Klux Klan hood.
Zenit’s Dutch coach Dick Advocaat said, when the club tried to sign Mathieu Valbuena in 2008, the question many fans asked was: ‘Is he a negro?’
In 2011, Roberto Carlos, of Anzhi Makhachkala, twice had bananas thrown at him (left) and Chris Samba was targeted at Lokomotiv Moscow.
In December 2012, a Zenit fan group issued a manifesto demanding the exclusion of black players, who they said were being ‘forced down their throats’, after Hulk and Alex Witsel joined the club.

 

[oakiecokie]

Another wonderful piece from S.Martins.He really does take journalism to a different height then the other fuckers shite hawks.

 

[andrewmswift]

Not read the entire thread but Samuels piece in the Fail is very good. Some of the examples he uses to illustrate the issues in Russia are quite mind boggling.

link?

Maybe we should give them another tournament. That’s what those boneheads need. More love. UEFA presented Moscow with the Champions League final in 2008, FIFA handed Russia the 2018 World Cup, what else is there?
The European Championship, of course, but that went to Ukraine in 2012. There were fears about racism before that event, too, and they proved groundless. Those who insisted that by welcoming foreigners and foreign footballers — some of them black — Ukraine’s right-wing extremists would be introduced to multiculturalism and racial tolerance swiftly claimed the moral victory.
So how did that work out? Well, last month — little more than 12 months after the tournament ended — FIFA decreed that Ukraine would have to play a World Cup qualifier behind closed doors due to racist chanting and racist banners displayed in a match against San Marino on September 6. Then FIFA’s resolve crumbled and the ban was lifted. So that showed them.

It has been much the same in Russia. FIFA has addressed the problem of racism there head-on, by awarding the country the most important football tournament in the world, no strings attached. UEFA earlier gave it the most prestigious match in the European calendar.
Considering recent events, it is almost as if this is sending the wrong message. It is almost as if tolerating extremists does not make extremists more tolerant. The nut jobs are winning; or at the very least they are carrying on regardless.

The same flawed logic abounds. A statement by Russia’s World Cup organising committee released yesterday peddled a familiar line. Responding to the racial abuse suffered by Yaya Toure in the match between CSKA Moscow and Manchester City, it became clear we are once again going to flatter the racists into submission. We are going to allow them to host a global celebration of football watched the world over. See how they like it then.
‘It is worth restating that all stakeholders in Russian football have made it clear there is absolutely no place for any type of racial discrimination or abuse in our game,’ the Russian statement read.
‘Football is uniquely positioned to educate fans in combating this global issue. The 2018 World Cup in Russia, in particular, can act as a catalyst to positively change the mindsets and behaviour across Russian football over the next four years.’

Yet there is a place for racial abuse and quite often it’s Moscow. In 2011, Emmanuel Emenike, a Nigerian playing for Spartak Moscow, was fined $10,500 (about (£6,500) for putting his middle finger up at Dynamo Moscow fans who were making monkey noises at him.
To be fair to the Russian authorities, both clubs were later fined for the behaviour of their supporters, who were throwing snowballs at each other and the players. No action was taken over the racist abuse, just as no action was taken against Lokomotiv Moscow when a banana was aimed from the VIP area at Christopher Samba.
See no evil, hear no evil, that is the Russian way on racism. On Thursday, CSKA wheeled out striker Seydou Doumbia, a team-mate of Toure’s with Ivory Coast, who was under no pressure at all to say the following: ‘I didn’t hear anything like that from the CSKA fans. Yes, they’re always noisy supporting the team and try to put as much pressure as possible on our opponents, but they wouldn’t ever allow themselves to come out with racist chants. My Ivory Coast colleague is clearly exaggerating. Please take those electrodes off my testicles now.’
Actually, that last part is made up. Doumbia didn’t really have electrodes on his testicles. Not literally, anyway. Metaphorically, you decide. Put it this way. Imagine if Doumbia had heard monkey chants and had confirmed Toure’s accusation. How comfortable would his life then be as a footballer with CSKA Moscow?
The club’s deputy media manager, Michael Sanadze, had already made his open-minded position clear. ‘There is no subject to discuss,’ he announced. ‘Nothing special happened.’
By Russian standards, that may be true. Yet this manner of outrage is what occurs when football’s world leaders choose to do business with unpleasant people, as FIFA in particular do all the time. In April, Jerome Valcke, FIFA’s general secretary, openly admitted a preference for dealing with countries that are less free.

‘I will say something which is crazy, but less democracy is sometimes better for organising a World Cup,’ said Valcke. ‘When you have a very strong head of state who can decide, as maybe President Vladimir Putin can do in 2018, then that is easier for us as organisers than a country such as Germany, where you have to negotiate at different levels,’

We can only shudder when imagining the German regime that would have suited FIFA best, with its strong head of state making decisions without recourse to checks and balances.
The problem with authoritarian government, however, is that it tends to be a little less given to introspection. So small matters of racist chanting by massed banks of white, shirtless skinheads are not taken asseriously as they should be.
It is around this moment when we have to add that English football is not perfect, either. And it isn’t.
Yet, as a senior Football Association executive once pointed out, racism at football grounds in England has been addressed so aggressively that one case, one inappropriate gesture, makes headline news.
There are some countries, some clubs, where entire stands are indulging in regressive behaviour, as appeared to happen at CSKA’s Khimki Arena. Yet black FIFA executives did not support England’s bid for the 2018 World Cup and Russia won by a landslide because FIFA see it as a lucrative new market, ripe for exploitation.

There are some countries, some clubs, where entire stands are indulging in regressive behaviour, as appeared to happen at CSKA’s Khimki Arena. Yet black FIFA executives did not support England’s bid for the 2018 World Cup and Russia won by a landslide because FIFA see it as a lucrative new market, ripe for exploitation.
So let’s not pretend to be shocked. When Toure says African footballers should boycott the 2018 tournament, he might start his protest simply by asking those at the helm of African football exactly which bid won their support and why.
In August 2010, as the vote on the hosting of the 2018 World Cup drew nearer, Nick Clegg got in terrible trouble for describing England’s bid as unbeatable. It was perceived as a terribly arrogant statement at a time when the idiots in charge of England’s campaign were in full Uriah Heep mode.
Meanwhile, Alexei Sorokin, head of the Russian host bid, was glibly explaining away the banner held up by supporters of Lokomotiv Moscow following the departure of Peter Odemwingie to West Bromwich Albion. Against a drawing of a banana, it read: ‘Thanks West Brom.’
‘I know that this banner applied to a certain player and to the manner of how he played in his last matches,’ said Sorokin.
‘Apparently fans were not happy with the fact that he plays better for Nigeria and worse for the club. There is nothing racial in it. If there would be another player — from Russia, Denmark, Norway or Japan, for example — the reaction could be the same. In Russia “to get a banana” means to fail a test.’
Well, it did. The Moscow-based SOVA Centre for Information and Analysis says the phrase was used during the time of the Soviet Union and has subsequently all but disappeared. Maybe the Russian Football Federation know more about the evolution of language than SOVA, however, for it took no action against Lokomotiv or their fans.

Indeed, Sorokin confirmed that, when FIFA visited before awarding the 2018 World Cup to Russia, they did not discuss the issue of racism at all.
Maybe Toure and his fellow black professionals would like to put it on FIFA’s agenda now by boycotting all FIFA race-related initiatives. You know, the ones Sepp Blatter organises when he wants to come over all presidential.
UEFA, too. This is, don’t laugh, UEFA’s Football Against Racism in Europe Action Week. Basically, it is the time when UEFA command the players to get together and armband and pennant racism into submission. And how forlorn that little ring of material looked on the left arm of Toure as he helplessly implored referee Ovidiu Hategan, of Romania, to take note of the noises around him.
Still, it isn’t just armbands that UEFA use to combat racism. There are slogans, soundbites and banners, too. And how else did UEFA mark Football Against Racism in Europe Action Week (the acronym of which is not BULLSHIT but, let’s be honest, it should be). They downgraded a punishment against Lazio for the racist behaviour of their fans from total ground closure to partial. Action stations, indeed.

What never seems to cross the minds of those who bestow football’s great gifts is that it might make a difference if racism was seen to have a powerful and damaging consequence. That, instead of giving Russia’s sizeable minority of right-wing boneheads a World Cup in the hope that it will correct their behaviour, they might try not giving them the World Cup — and announcing the poor treatment of black players as the motivation behind that decision.
That way President Putin might ask questions of bid chief Sorokin, and bid chief Sorokin might have to take on the clubs, and the clubs the racists, and with responsibility will come modification.
Alternatively, we can carry on meeting racism with armbands and trite slogans; we can continue selling out young black men to the highest bidder; and ignore the voices that tell us something is terribly, terribly wrong.
If this were an exam, the organisers would get a banana. And if there were real justice it would be left to Toure to decide where to put it.

RACISM CRIME SHEET
Cameroon centre back Andre Bikey was racially abused while at Lokomotiv Moscow from 2005 to 2007. Bikey said: ‘There is racism from the stands, but I was physically attacked in the street. People attacked me when I was with my wife or mother.’ Bikey bought a gun for protection.
During a 2008 UEFA Cup clash, Zenit fans in masks hanged a toy monkey in the shirt of opponents Marseille and another wore a Ku Klux Klan hood.
Zenit’s Dutch coach Dick Advocaat said, when the club tried to sign Mathieu Valbuena in 2008, the question many fans asked was: ‘Is he a negro?’
In 2011, Roberto Carlos, of Anzhi Makhachkala, twice had bananas thrown at him (left) and Chris Samba was targeted at Lokomotiv Moscow.
In December 2012, a Zenit fan group issued a manifesto demanding the exclusion of black players, who they said were being ‘forced down their throats’, after Hulk and Alex Witsel joined the club.

good read, thanks

 

[TBooksbluearmy]

It is time that UEFA got to grips with this racist chanting and started to fine the clubs heavily. By this I mean in the £100,000's of pounds plus play all games away even if it means that they have to play at their opponents ground twice.

So this is what I would tell CSKA Moscow if they are found guilty of this racism charge, that if this happens again this season or at any time in the next 5 seasons the club will be forced to play all games at least 500 miles from Moscow, or better still all game swill be played in a neutral country be it Holland , France or Germany, but you will not be playing any games in what was the old eastern block, so this would rule out game sin Poland both the Checz and Slovak republics as well as any other countries from the former iron curtain countries.

 

[fathellensbellend]

I personally would love to see a banner for the return leg along the lines of

"Manchester City welcomes any player and supporter no matter what race, religion or culture"

The kick racism out scheme although well intentioned seems to focus on the negative, football should embrace everyone.

 

[Chris in London]

I personally would love to see a banner for the return leg along the lines of

"Manchester City welcomes any player and supporter no matter what race, religion or culture"

The kick racism out scheme although well intentioned seems to focus on the negative, football should embrace everyone.

If you look at the banners attached to the spirals, I think that's kind of the message already

The easiest thing to do in the world would be for us to be as vile to them as they have been to us. Just like The easiest thing to do would be for us to be vile to the press when the press are vile to us. But when dealing with the press we have been open and receptive to the press even when they bite the hand that (quite literally) feeds them - the dinner we give journos is reckoned the best on the circuit

And slowly but surely this 'hearts and minds' campaign is paying dividends. The same approach is to be commended when knuckle dragging neanderthals - whether from Russia or Millwall - come to our ground. We welcome them all, and I'm proud that my club takes that sort of stance and will not indulge in tit for tat point scoring with racists.

Quite ironically, when you think of some of the abuse we get, this club is doing things the right way. It isn't always the most satisfying way, but its the right way.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I personally would love to see a banner for the return leg along the lines of

"Manchester City welcomes any player and supporter no matter what race, religion or culture"

The kick racism out scheme although well intentioned seems to focus on the negative, football should embrace everyone.

If you look at the banners attached to the spirals, I think that's kind of the message already

The easiest thing to do in the world would be for us to be as vile to them as they have been to us. Just like The easiest thing to do would be for us to be vile to the press when the press are vile to us. But when dealing with the press we have been open and receptive to the press even when they bite the hand that (quite literally) feeds them - the dinner we give journos is reckoned the best on the circuit

And slowly but surely this 'hearts and minds' campaign is paying dividends. The same approach is to be commended when knuckle dragging neanderthals - whether from Russia or Millwall - come to our ground. We welcome them all, and I'm proud that my club takes that sort of stance and will not indulge in tit for tat point scoring with racists.

Quite ironically, when you think of some of the abuse we get, this club is doing things the right way. It isn't always the most satisfying way, but its the right way.

Good post Chris.

 

[cockneycarparkm32]

Alexander Pushkin - the father of Russian literature . As Bob Marley sang " if you know your history ,you will know where you`r e coming from " .

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

should we have a blackout pre-match?