Rangers coming to Stretford

[u2fme2]

lets just hope they set fire to the place

 

[Breadsnapper]

As I've said, City fans are not backward at coming forward. If City fans had behaved like Rangers fans did that night, yes, I would be ashamed as I am sure most right minded people probably would be.

According to the figures you have provided, Glastonbury certainly had more arrests, I'm assuming though few if any of the arrests at Glastonbury were as a result of mobs of lads running riot.

Your post suggested that crowds of people will always have nobs in them - agreed! However, it doesn't bear scrutiny with how the nobs in the Rangers crowd behaved compared with the other crowds at the other events I have pointed out.

You said that you would be ashamed to be a blue if City fans - 1 or 1000 - acted like that. They have , are you ashamed to be a blue?

Do you think all City fans should be tarnished due to the actions of a minority?

Keep quoting minority, is sounds much better. There was a significant number of people running riot around Manchester for several hours AFTER the match had ended. Are you so blinded by ignorance/antipathy towards police/ authority/democracy that you can't see that. Images were flashed on TV screens around the world of a copper being hunted down like wild prey by the angry mob. Ambulances would not enter into Piccadilly due to the fact that someone was throwing whatever they could lay their hands on at them. These are not imaginary incidents, this is not the one and only time rangers fans have behaved like this.
As I will keep saying till I am blue in the face, IF YO ARE BEING TOLD TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF PUBLIC DISORDER, POLICE OFFICERS HAVE BATONS DRAWN AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN AUTHORITY TO USE THEM.
Then the sensible thing is to leave. Once faced by a running line of coppers in full riot gear it's too late. The rules are very clear. The public have to be warned if they do not move then they are considered to be antagonists.
There is no way on earth that anyone can condone the actions of the so called rangers fans that night.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

It's always a minority with old firm fans. Never a majority singing sectarian songs or generally causing bother with no respect for other fans, the police or members of the public.

Aye right.

 

[Glasgow Man City]

You said that you would be ashamed to be a blue if City fans - 1 or 1000 - acted like that. They have , are you ashamed to be a blue?

Do you think all City fans should be tarnished due to the actions of a minority?

Keep quoting minority, is sounds much better. There was a significant number of people running riot around Manchester for several hours AFTER the match had ended. Are you so blinded by ignorance/antipathy towards police/ authority/democracy that you can't see that. Images were flashed on TV screens around the world of a copper being hunted down like wild prey by the angry mob. Ambulances would not enter into Piccadilly due to the fact that someone was throwing whatever they could lay their hands on at them. These are not imaginary incidents, this is not the one and only time rangers fans have behaved like this.
As I will keep saying till I am blue in the face, IF YO ARE BEING TOLD TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF PUBLIC DISORDER, POLICE OFFICERS HAVE BATONS DRAWN AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN AUTHORITY TO USE THEM.
Then the sensible thing is to leave. Once faced by a running line of coppers in full riot gear it's too late. The rules are very clear. The public have to be warned if they do not move then they are considered to be antagonists.
There is no way on earth that anyone can condone the actions of the so called rangers fans that night.

Minority might "sound better" but it doesn't stop it being true.

You make Manchester sound like Armageddon that night, I walked from a pub in Cannon Street to Victoria Station after the game to get my train out to Oldham and never saw an ounce of trouble - the pictures shown on TV make it look like the whole City was "under siege" and this just isn't true.

The pictures of the police man being chsed down & kicked & the police vans being kicked & hit showed the disgraceful element/minority up for what they were - scum. As for ambulances being attacked - that was also the work of scum.

If you think for one minute that all the people involved in the "riots" were Rangers "fans" then IMO you are mistaken.<br /><br />-- Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:31 am --<br /><br />

It's always a minority with old firm fans. Never a majority singing sectarian songs or generally causing bother with no respect for other fans, the police or members of the public.

Aye right.

Do you think it was a majority of Rangers fans that caused bother in Manchester?

 

[Breadsnapper]

Keep quoting minority, is sounds much better. There was a significant number of people running riot around Manchester for several hours AFTER the match had ended. Are you so blinded by ignorance/antipathy towards police/ authority/democracy that you can't see that. Images were flashed on TV screens around the world of a copper being hunted down like wild prey by the angry mob. Ambulances would not enter into Piccadilly due to the fact that someone was throwing whatever they could lay their hands on at them. These are not imaginary incidents, this is not the one and only time rangers fans have behaved like this.
As I will keep saying till I am blue in the face, IF YO ARE BEING TOLD TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF PUBLIC DISORDER, POLICE OFFICERS HAVE BATONS DRAWN AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN AUTHORITY TO USE THEM.
Then the sensible thing is to leave. Once faced by a running line of coppers in full riot gear it's too late. The rules are very clear. The public have to be warned if they do not move then they are considered to be antagonists.
There is no way on earth that anyone can condone the actions of the so called rangers fans that night.

Minority might "sound better" but it doesn't stop it being true.

You make Manchester sound like Armageddon that night, I walked from a pub in Cannon Street to Victoria Station after the game to get my train out to Oldham and never saw an ounce of trouble - the pictures shown on TV make it look like the whole City was "under siege" and this just isn't true.

The pictures of the police man being chsed down & kicked & the police vans being kicked & hit showed the disgraceful element/minority up for what they were - scum. As for ambulances being attacked - that was also the work of scum.

If you think for one minute that all the people involved in the "riots" were Rangers "fans" then IMO you are mistaken.

-- Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:31 am --

It's always a minority with old firm fans. Never a majority singing sectarian songs or generally causing bother with no respect for other fans, the police or members of the public.

Aye right.

Do you think it was a majority of Rangers fans that caused bother in Manchester?

To be honest both sides of the argument will omit and embellish facts in order to make their point of view appear valid. yes it was a minority no one doubts that. Had it been 150K then GMP would have been still fighting to gain control now.
Like yourself some people were fortunate enough not to see anything but Portland St, Market St and Deansgate were like battlefields.
My whole view on this is that on the night in question I took what happened to Manchester personally, how could people treat my City like that?
Then only reason I would not want Rangers in town again is so that this type of thing does not happen again. I don't believe the minority of idiots that follow Rangers should be given a chance to do it again because some of them will want to have another go.

 

[BluePurgatory]

Breadsnapper said: As I will keep saying till I am blue in the face, IF YO
ARE BEING TOLD TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF PUBLIC DISORDER, POLICE OFFICERS HAVE BATONS DRAWN AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN AUTHORITY TO USE THEM.
Then the sensible thing is to leave. Once faced by a running line of coppers in full riot gear it's too late. The rules are very clear. The public have to be warned if they do not move then they are considered to be antagonists.

Obviously you was not at the last city game against the rags at the COMS, when some of the men and women in blue thought it was fair game to attack innocent city fans trying to make there way home or at the Barnsley game some years back when the south yorkshire police decided to batton charge women and childen? Now imagine what could have happended if the majority of those fans were tankd up? You need to wake up and accept that some of the police were also responsible for what happended that night and just becuase they wear a unifrom does not mean they have no thugs. It is a fact that football fans of whatever team you may support be you a Male, Female, Black, White, Old, Young, Drunk, Sober, Guilty or Innocent the thugs in the Police will see you as an easy target and trying to plead your innocence to the bench would be a none starter.
Fact football fans have no Rights if any group were treated by the Police like football fans are they would be an uproar.

 

[harrogateblue]

So on that basis Breadsnapper it is quite reasonable for the Metropolitan Police to attack and kill a newspaper vendor in London on the grounds that he was told to move.
Fucking unbelievable!!
Ghengis Khan school of police control studies - you pass.<br /><br />-- Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:00 am --<br /><br />Oh, and then cover up their numbers so they can't be identified. Police say move, you don't move, they then hit you from behind and kill you. No one gets charged the establishment cover it up.

 

[BluePurgatory]

So on that basis Breadsnapper it is quite reasonable for the Metropolitan Police to attack and kill a newspaper vendor in London on the grounds that he was told to move.
Fucking unbelievable!!
Ghengis Khan school of police control studies - you pass.

-- Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:00 am --

Oh, and then cover up their numbers so they can't be identified. Police say move, you don't move, they then hit you from behind and kill you. No one gets charged the establishment cover it up.

I think Breadsnapper still thinks we are being policed by Dixon of Dock Green!

 

[Breadsnapper]

think Harrowgate blue knows my stance on this. However, the evening in May the police decided to pull out of the City centre and regroup as it were. This was allow the "fans" time to leave the area and hopefully let the rioters burn themselves out.
This did not happen as when the police went back into the town centre they were greeted with hundreds if not thousands of people still hell bent on causing mayhem. Ambulance and Police vehicles being bricked and bottled
Prior to the police attempting to regain control, very specific information HAS to be given to the people on the streets. If the people do not act and heed the advice given ie. go away then when the Police take action to clear the street the people remaining can quite legitimately be perceived as a threat. Now this is where it gets sticky. A male who has not been seen to be causing trouble but is still in the vicinity of the disorder after being told to leave, is he to be viewed as a threat? Possibly not so should he be batoned? Again probably not as that would not be appropriate nor proportionate and certainly not necessary. It could be deemed as being legal as authority has ben given to use batons and who is to say that this male is going to wait for the coppers to go past then attack from behind.
The other situation is a male is seen throwing bottles whatever at the police and has been seen to be involved with the disorder. As police attempt to clear the streets he then holds his hands up as if to say not me I am just stood here. Is this male a hostile or now he has put his hands up that's ok. My view is he is a hostile, appropriate, proportinate, necessary, legal force should be used to stop this male carrying out further disorder.
I am convinced that there were some Police officers who acted like thugs themselves and hey should be brought to justice as should the rioters. To quote some on here the Police officers that behaved as thugs were most certainly in the minority as were the trouble causers.
There seems to be not just on this forum but in life in general a genuine lack of trust or dislike for the police. We all have a story to tell about how we have all been mistreated. The reality is that very few people actually have contact with the police.
Regards the attack on the gent by the Met, I was actually sick to my stomach when I saw the video footage. No it is not alright, but I think you will find that his death was not as a result of the actual push. So although I am not in favour of Police acting like thugs lets not let the truth spoil a good tale.
The officers can be identified very easily, as was the case because weren't they admonished?
Bluepurgatory I do share your views that football fans are treated like second class citizens, I have also been on the wrong end of what can be best described as over zealous, robust policing, Huddersfield when we got beat 1-0 at their place. So what can you do, quite simply complain. You have a right. If you see a police officer behaving in a manner that causes you concern you have the right to report it. And before you say nothing will happen, that is absolute nonsense, I have done it myself.
The amount of times I have heard coppers speaking with people and making reasonable requests of fans in a reasonable manner only to have abuse thrown back in their face.
You have to earn respect and that includes both Police and fans.
What really makes me laugh about this thread is how many of you were actually in the town centre after 10.30pm when the Police moved in properly to clear the streets? Probably only a handfull and yet based on suposition, your experiences with the Police, the press (which are bemoaned on here for their ill feeling towards City) or what a mate heard down the pub who once went to a rangers match with a lad who knew someone that was there, everyone is able to speak with such clarity and expert opinion.
For the record I was there.

 

[Anonymous]

Again, I'd never defend the police having witnessed and been on the receiving end of some harsh treatment myself over the years.

To be fair, I think the root cause of the problem in Manchester that day was simply the fact that 150,000 ticketless supporters turned up, with a significant number of them being pissed up!

Why the police did not say from the off "if you haven't got a ticket, don't bother coming," I'll never know.

Still, thankfully it is only European competition and not regular league games where we have to face the problem of the Old Firm.

I'm still non-plussed as to how you can support two teams.