Redcafe: The Bitterness Is Reaching Epidemic Proportions....

[Pam]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redcafe.net/f7/balotelli-adebayor-tevez-upfront-303526/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redcafe.net/f7/balotelli-ade ... nt-303526/</a>

 

[Balti]

Forced the formation of the Premier League through greed. Topped off by their stock market flotation they then became the richest club in the league and bought trophies galore. Sadly :-) they were mismanaged and ultimately turned this financial dominance into the current massive debt. Now they are constantly whinging like the spoilt little rag brats that they have become. It's not fair. It's not fair. BooHoo.

Happy Days.

 

[mcfc83]

I'm sure this is from a rag too:

With City collecting players like stickers will they struggle when the 25 man limit comes in at the start of the season?? They have a number of players signed to big contracts who are apparently surplus to requirements. Except they will not want to leave their big fat wages and instead will sulk in the reserves (sorry - the "Elite squad"!) Will City's obscene wealth actually count against them? Or will money once again win out in the end? This Premier League football blog examines it further.

 

[M18CTID]

There may be a fair few numpties over there but there are some decent posters too. Not only that, rival fans do tend to get a fair shake on there as long as you don't take the piss too much. The mods don't mess about but are just as strict with the Rags and ban shit-loads of them from the newbie forum all the time. Having said that, there are some right arses that seem to slip through the net and get promoted and I sometimes find myself wondering why that is.

Sammsky seems a decent enough bloke though - his comments are in bold at the end and puts the "no history" wankers right in their place. Funnily enough, nobody has bothered to dispute him yet.

Originally Posted by Red_Jamie


I suppose lacking honestly is more a matter of opinion (i feel most of their fans are deluded and cannot give an honest opinion of us because of their bitterness).. But you can't see how they lack history?

Hmm.. Let me think..

Maybe a very brief overview of the clubs respective histories will help you get a better idea?


MANCHESTER CITY FC

Honours


Football League First Division

1936–37, 1967–68

Football League Second Division / Football League First Division (second tier)

1898–99, 1902–03, 1909–10, 1927–28, 1946–47, 1965–66, 2001–02

FA Cup

1904, 1934, 1956, 1969

League Cup

1970, 1976

Charity Shield

1937, 1968, 1972

European

European Cup Winners' Cup

Winners (1): 1970

Brief overview

- The club's most successful period was in the late 1960s and early 1970s when they won the League Championship, the FA Cup, the League Cup and European Cup Winners' Cup

- In 2008 they were purchased by the Abu Dhabi United Group, making the club one of the most financially powerful in the world

- The Club have won the most Football League Second Division / Football League First Division titles



-------------------------------------------------------


MANCHESTER UNITED

Honours

League

Premier League: 11

1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09

First Division: 7

1907–08, 1910–11, 1951–52, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1964–65, 1966–67

Second Division: 2

1935–36, 1974–75

Cups

FA Cup: 11

1908–09, 1947–48, 1962–63, 1976–77, 1982–83, 1984–85, 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04

League Cup: 4

1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10

FA Charity/Community Shield: 17 (13 outright, 4 shared)

1908, 1911, 1952, 1956, 1957, 1965*, 1967*, 1977*, 1983, 1990*, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008 (* joint holders)

European

European Cup / UEFA Champions League: 3

1967–68, 1998–99, 2007–08

UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1

1990–91

European Super Cup: 1

1991

Worldwide

Intercontinental Cup: 1

1999

FIFA Club World Cup: 1

2008


Brief Overview



- In 1957, Manchester United became the first English team to compete in the European Cup

- The Munich air disaster of 6 February 1958 claimed 23 lives. On the way home from a European Cup quarter-final victory against Red Star Belgrade, the aircraft carrying the Manchester United players, officials and journalists crashed while attempting to take off after refuelling in Munich. Eight players were killed including– Geoff Bent, Roger Byrne, Eddie Colman, Duncan Edwards, Mark Jones, David Pegg, Tommy Taylor and Billy Whelan.

Five years later they finished second in the league, then won the title in 1965 and 1967. In 1968

- In 1968, under the management of Matt Busby, Manchester United was the first English football club to win the European Cup (Which they achieved with a team that contained three European Footballers of the Year: Bobby Charlton, Denis Law and George Best)

- In 1994, for the first time since 1957, the club won a second consecutive title – alongside the FA Cup – to complete the first "Double" in the club's history.

- The club is unique in having won the Premier League, the FA Cup and the UEFA Champions League in a single season, a feat known as The Treble, in 1998–99.

- Manchester United's 1998–99 season was the most successful in English club football history

- In the 1999 UEFA Champions League final, United were Losing 1–0 going into injury time, Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjær scored late goals to claim a dramatic victory over Bayern Munich, in what is considered one of the greatest comebacks of all time

The club also won the Intercontinental Cup after beating Palmeiras 1–0 in Tokyo. Ferguson was subsequently knighted for his services to football.


- Manchester United is reputed to be the most popular football club in the world, with the highest average home attendance in Europe

- The club have won a joint-record 18 league titles.

- The club have won a record 11 FA Cups.

--------------------------------------------------

Our honours, our great players of the past and present (most of which i neglected to mention here) and our ability to overcome disaster of the likes of Munich are what have made us a truly great club. This is the reason we have the worlds biggest following.. All the money-fuelled success in the world will never make City a great club. It takes something more than that, something special, and we have it.

Sammsky wrote this in response:

Thanks for the reminder of all our great successes. Yes, without doubt, we are more successful than Manchester city. Yes, we have a more successful history than Manchester City .... but that does not still mean they 'have no history'. Far from it. You list shows that they even won the FA cup before we did.

Manchester City are one of the oldest clubs in existence and have been through amazing trials and tribulations too. Not having a pop at you specifically, but I think its disrespectful (and in the same way deluded) to suggest otherwise.

 

[laserblue]

In 1968, under the management of Matt Busby, Manchester United was the first English football club to win the European Cup (Which they achieved with a team that contained three European Footballers of the Year: Bobby Charlton, Denis Law and George Best)

this rag doesn't even know his own history. law missed the final and therefore a european cup medal.

 

[M18CTID]

In 1968, under the management of Matt Busby, Manchester United was the first English football club to win the European Cup (Which they achieved with a team that contained three European Footballers of the Year: Bobby Charlton, Denis Law and George Best)

this rag doesn't even know his own history. law missed the final and therefore a european cup medal.

LOL! Whoever that Red Jamie is that posted that on Rag Cafe, I think he's just pulled all that from Wikipedia without even bothering to trawl through it for mistakes. Or he did trawl through it and just believed everything in it!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Redcafe: "Which is Worse"...Hilariously Bitter Thread

City are essentially MK Dons writ large, a multi-billionaire bought himself a place in the premier league, and will buy himself some trophies. The fans will continue to support the team, but none of it really has anything to do with them. City could play every week in front of only Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan and it would make absolutely no difference. Indeed the only enjoyable aspect of all this will be when Eastlands is inevitably swamped with southern/foreign fans, we'll see how much they trumpet their precious parochialism then. The team has no progression in it, this isn't a team we'll watch grow, they'll just keep buying until they win. The players are disposable mercenaries, most of whom probably had little idea who City were five years ago. Their only hope of having any kind of legacy is for them to play great football, and that sure won't be happening under Mancini.

When we've finished being giddy, there's a large element of truth in this bit, at least for the moment.

 

[JULES]

The issue is surely that despite the fact that they have an ageing squad with no decent signings and no prospect of competing with the likes of Bolton in the transfer market tbe deluded fuckers still think they will win everything. I am 45 years old and have had years of shit from rag fans, the press and every other tosser that has an opinion on football. Tjey have been hyped out of all proportion to the point that some blues believe them too. The club has been immortalised not because what they did on the pitch but because of a plane crash, which if i am honest means toas all to me and the majority of blues. They deserve all they get and more besides have you forgotten the arrogance of club and fans, the manager who constantly complains to anyone who will listen prior to a derby about City being a dirty team. The club, manager,fans and players are a disgrace to all that is right. If i am gloating over the current states of the two clubs i think i deserve it. Stuff being little City, i for one am sick of it.

good post

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Redcafe: "Which is Worse"...Hilariously Bitter Thread

City are essentially MK Dons writ large, a multi-billionaire bought himself a place in the premier league, and will buy himself some trophies. The fans will continue to support the team, but none of it really has anything to do with them. City could play every week in front of only Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan and it would make absolutely no difference. Indeed the only enjoyable aspect of all this will be when Eastlands is inevitably swamped with southern/foreign fans, we'll see how much they trumpet their precious parochialism then. The team has no progression in it, this isn't a team we'll watch grow, they'll just keep buying until they win. The players are disposable mercenaries, most of whom probably had little idea who City were five years ago. Their only hope of having any kind of legacy is for them to play great football, and that sure won't be happening under Mancini.

When we've finished being giddy, there's a large element of truth in this bit, at least for the moment.

I could almost agree with some of that.
But how can a rag pontificate on how teams now have to operate within a financial structural "glass ceiling" that they were a driving force in creating for their own ends?

Teams like Forest or Derby could never win European or domestic trophies now....why?Because the way the league is structured and funded has made it impossible for teams to rise in the way Clough's Forest did.
The rags failed to win the title for decades until the Sky years kicked in and the full power of the media spotlight enabled them to become a self-perpetuating dominating force.

Right place,right time.

Was Ferdinand a mercenary when he joined the rags from Leeds?Was Ince a mercenary when he joined the rags from West Ham?Was Pallister a mercenary when he became the world record transfer for a defender?

Did any of them join the rags for lower wages because of the prestige of playing for them and their "history?"
Did they fuck!!!

They joined the rags simply becasue they thought they had a chance of winning things there and earning decent money.

We can go on and on....and every decent player that joined them pushed the price of the better players up for everyone else...EXACTLY what we're accused of and being lambasted for doing now.

TWENTY YEARS AGO!!!!!!

The rags are masters of hypocrisy and double standards.
There has been a seismic shift in their world,and they can't handle it.
They're having to look for poetic and nostalgic reasons to explain why the world order they knew would last forever is changing-and they can't do anything about it.

The piss-taking playground bully is getting repeatedly smacked on the nose by the kid with the NHS specs-and he doesn't like it.

 

[M18CTID]

Re: Redcafe: "Which is Worse"...Hilariously Bitter Thread

When we've finished being giddy, there's a large element of truth in this bit, at least for the moment.

I could almost agree with some of that.
But how can a rag pontificate on how teams now have to operate within a financial structural "glass ceiling" that they were a driving force in creating for their own ends?

Teams like Forest or Derby could never win European or domestic trophies now....why?Because the way the league is structured and funded has made it impossible for teams to rise in the way Clough's Forest did.
The rags failed to win the title for decades until the Sky years kicked in and the full power of the media spotlight enabled them to become a self-perpetuating dominating force.

Right place,right time.

Was Ferdinand a mercenary when he joined the rags from Leeds?Was Ince a mercenary when he joined the rags from West Ham?Was Pallister a mercenary when he became the world record transfer for a defender?

Did any of them join the rags for lower wages because of the prestige of playing for them and their "history?"
Did they fuck!!!

They joined the rags simply becasue they thought they had a chance of winning things there and earning decent money.

We can go on and on....and every decent player that joined them pushed the price of the better players up for everyone else...EXACTLY what we're accused of and being lambasted for doing now.

TWENTY YEARS AGO!!!!!!

The rags are masters of hypocrisy and double standards.
There has been a seismic shift in their world,and they can't handle it.
They're having to look for poetic and nostalgic reasons to explain why the world order they knew would last forever is changing-and they can't do anything about it.

The piss-taking playground bully is getting repeatedly smacked on the nose by the kid with the NHS specs-and he doesn't like it.

I alluded to this on their forum yesterday in response to someone who came out with the tired old myth that United have only ever spent self-generated cash. Some reds are intelligent and knowledgeable enough to know that this isn't the case of course but a huge number either simply don't know or conveniently airbrush that part out of their history:

Originally Posted by Rob Lawrence
Hate to burst the bubble on our blue neighbours, but I think the point being made was that the Sheikh could have bought any struggling PL club and done what he has done with your club. There is nothing "City" about how your club is dealing at the moment. The identity of your club has been sold as a means to an end.

With our club, the owers bought it to make money. With yours, the owners bought it to lose money. And scholesy is right, whatever we spend comes from what the club generates (including a large part from the fans) and not what a new owner gives as a freebie, so he does have a valid point that it is still very much the fans that are supporting the team, whereas the amount from City fans is a very small part of your income and you can't say the same, well at least not to the same degree. That's why in a few years, even if you finish high up enough in the PL, you will still struggle to qualify for Europe because of UEFA's FFP rules.

Having said that, with all the pain of achieving nothing in your past, if I was you, I wouldn't care either. I would be grateful just to come out of our shadows even for the briefest of time.

To which I responded:

You're right mate - I don't give too much of a shit how other fans view it.

What pisses me off more is that there's an incredible amount of hypocrisy surrounding the issue. United fans are by no means the worst culprits either but many of them ought to remember how much they lauded a potential sugar daddy in Michael Knighton before casting aspersions about City. And as for the self-generated cash issue, well it's equally tedious hearing about that too. Not least because it simply isn't true - much of the money behind Ferguson's initial spending spree back in the late 1980's was with borrowed cash and it plunged United millions into debt. Why else was Edwards so desperate to offload the club onto Knighton? I don't seem to remember much in the way of moralistic opinion from United fans back then about spending above your means. That's because there wasn't any moaning about it amongst your support and you were all quite happy to see the likes of Bruce, Pallister, Ince, Wallace, Webb, et al, arriving at your club and not giving 2 shits about where the money was coming from. And why should you have been arsed? Football is entertainment and fans want to see their team entertain and win trophies.

Ever since football became a professional sport over 100 years ago, there hasn't been such thing as a level playing field and throughout that time it's been littered with examples of rich benefactors bailing clubs out (United in 1902 and 1931 for example) and stumping up cash for players.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:08 am --<br /><br />

City are essentially MK Dons writ large, a multi-billionaire bought himself a place in the premier league, and will buy himself some trophies. The fans will continue to support the team, but none of it really has anything to do with them. City could play every week in front of only Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan and it would make absolutely no difference. Indeed the only enjoyable aspect of all this will be when Eastlands is inevitably swamped with southern/foreign fans, we'll see how much they trumpet their precious parochialism then. The team has no progression in it, this isn't a team we'll watch grow, they'll just keep buying until they win. The players are disposable mercenaries, most of whom probably had little idea who City were five years ago. Their only hope of having any kind of legacy is for them to play great football, and that sure won't be happening under Mancini.

When we've finished being giddy, there's a large element of truth in this bit, at least for the moment.

I thought your name was Colin Savage, not Colin Shindler ;)