Ref Watch City Games - 2023/24

In my view, there are systemic problems with the offside law and the way VAR has been applied has magnified these.

The first and most fundamental problem is understanding what is the purpose of the offside law?

In my view the purpose could be expressed like this, “The purpose of the offside law is to prevent team’s gaining an advantage by having a player or players in an offside position.” If you accept that definition, or something like it then there is an immediate problem with one part of the law as it is written. That is the bit about a player coming back from an offside position and being in an onside position when he/she receives the ball. What is the difference between a player who was in an onside position and one who was in an offside position if when they get the ball the are in the same situation as each other? So the letter of the law is somewhat contradictory to the purpose or spirit of the law. That is down to IFAB who play lip service to the spirit of the game in the preface to the Laws but then seem to forget about it when actually formulate the wording of the laws. The same problem applies to the law on handball.

A consequence of not specifying the purpose of the law is amplified by VAR we now have players given offside by mm using technology that is only reliable to a few inches at best. I don’t believe that there is any advantage to an attacking player whose toe is 5mm ahead of a derender’s. So the first thing that the law needs to do is define what constitutes an advantage. There is no perfect answer to this, but the concept of the whole of an attacker’s body being ahead of the defender’s body is probably an improvement on what we currently have. Of course you will still have the problem of decisions being decided by m by technology that is only reliable to a few inches but at least the offside player would be more likely to be gaining an advantage than is currently the case.

So, how could the technology be improved? Well I would say that the main source of error is decide exactly when the ball is released. In ball technology may improve this in terms of objectivity but unless the frame rates on the cameras can match those of in ball technology there will still be some residual issues. It would be good if the PGMOL/IFAB could acknowledge the there are errors. One way of dealing with identifying when the ball is released would be to use two frames, one being the last frame where there is still contact with the body and the other where the ball has left the body and if either of those is onside then deciding that the goal stands.

That leaves corrections for camera angles etc. it would be a start to insist that all grounds should have cameras calibrated for offside use that cover the whole pitch - pretty basic stuff but as we have seen not necessarily the case.

OK returning to Friday’s decision, it seems to me that within the way that offside VAR currently operates it is just offside.IMG_4902.jpeg

I think the dotted blue and red extensions are supposed to be perpendiculars to correct for the height of the foot off the ground, though they are not very convincing. There are issues with how the thickness of the lines reflect the errors in measurement, but if we assume that the best frame has been chosen, and it is as I hope I have indicated above a big assumption, then Bobb is just offside.
 
But then what is 'clearly' offside to one ref may not be to a different one.
So you will have a goal being disallowed at one ground and a near identical goal being given at another.
That will just lead to more calls of refs being bent or favouring certain teams.
Before VAR, we were always at the mercy of the referee / linesman, and still are to a degree. The clear and obvious edict "prevents" them from intervening for ordinary decisions, so why is Offside any different?
Clear and obvious offside = OFFSIDE
Clear and obvious onside = ONSIDE
Not clear and obvious either way = ONSIDE

Your comment about different outcomes at different grounds is exactly what we have at the moment. Far too much is left to subjective interpretation of when the ball is played, what frame to use, the technology is not that good enough, and the officials certainly are not..

If they have to "select" the appropriate frame , then it is NOT clear and obvious, and should be deemed ONSIDE!
 
If the semi-automated system as used in major tournaments was brought in I think it would settle a lot of the perceived injustices from the current system - basically any decision that requires human input has the potential (in the minds of fans at least) of decisions being subjective and/or biased.

Nobody has any issue or moan about goal line technology, and that’s where a similar automatic system for offsides would quickly get to as well potentially.

Add in hearing what the ref / VAR team are discussing and a lot of the angst from the system should be greatly reduced.

We can but live in hope.
 
On the offside, why don’t we implement the uefa automatic model, it seems to work very well? Or are we just too arrogant?

Regarding Friday night, I was in the ground and appreciate there can be an element of group norming, but I honestly thought Tierney was pretty fucking shite and gave spurs everything. We had most of the possession, they got most of the free kicks. As usual
 
That is the bit about a player coming back from an offside position and being in an onside position when he/she receives the ball. What is the difference between a player who was in an onside position and one who was in an offside position if when they get the ball the are in the same situation as each other?

On that point, it’s whether the player in an offside position would have been able to receive the ball had he not been offside to start with, otherwise he’s gained an advantage.
 
i knew as soon as the VAR got involved that Bobb's goal was being disallowed , we willnot get ANY 50/50 decisions this season , another treble will not be allowed , even when you look at the footage it is nearly impossible to judge , if you slowed it down to ten frames per second the decision is made when the ball leaves the players boot , if you use the frame one tenth of a second earlier then its onside.
Not often i agree with Ian Wright but he said when it is that close the forward should get the benefit of the doubt it would also speed up the ridiculous delays whilst the three pricks at Stockley Park decide which team they want to win the game
 
On the offside, why don’t we implement the uefa automatic model, it seems to work very well? Or are we just too arrogant?

Regarding Friday night, I was in the ground and appreciate there can be an element of group norming, but I honestly thought Tierney was pretty fucking shite and gave spurs everything. We had most of the possession, they got most of the free kicks. As usual
Apparently they had the chance to take it last season I think,but strangely turned it down I wonder why that would be ..
 
i knew as soon as the VAR got involved that Bobb's goal was being disallowed , we willnot get ANY 50/50 decisions this season , another treble will not be allowed

I’m going to take a guess that the Tottenham forums this week have been dominated by whinging about how we got the only 50/50 that really mattered.

With accompanying clips of numerous fouls given on ‘keepers that were vaguely similar to the one in this game.
 
Apparently they had the chance to take it last season I think,but strangely turned it down I wonder why that would be ..
I’m sure I’ve read from someone on here (possibly Alan Harper’s Tash) that the premier league usually wait a year to see how new technology or rules bed in before adopting it, so hopefully that will be the case with this. Ends the super quick review on occasion (nothing to see here) to the excruciating and sometimes forensic efforts that seem to be put into some reviews (which we will be familiar with).

Anything which is done to improve the current situation and reduce time wasted during the game is a big bonus.
 

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