Ref Watch

[Churchlawtonblue]

I think the reason is Var can only intervene in four circumstances: penalties, goals, sendings off, or mistaken identity. Crap rules rather than a mistake in implementing them.

Milner could have been sent off for his last man trip on Foden. Clearly a case for VAR in that instance. So there was a mistake in that instance. A second yellow is also a sending off is it not?

 

[bluenova]

PL refs make ~40k pounds, US football referees (and there are a ton of them per match) make 205k dollars. Think if we paid more for referees we would see a better talent pipeline for accuracy and accountability.

I don't necessarily think exposing referees to criticism by the baying mob is the best solution. Judges are typically given lifetime tenure for a reason. Some amount of insulation from "politics" is better for the smaller teams.

Adding onto this, if we think the big old boys in red are getting favorable treatment now, imagine a world where referees are under direct and formal review by any reviewing body, do we think that this would lead to less favoritism or more for the red teams? I think I have to go with "more" on this one...

From everything I've read they already have far too high an opinion of themselves - paying them more money sounds like a recipe for even more arrogant "stars".

Some of the internal politics that Clattenburg mentioned in his book was ridiculous. He also suggested that women struggled to get to the top in refereeing because they needed to choose between career and having a baby. Considering all the top female athletes that have had children and come back as world beaters, and that some of the top refs are 50+, it indicates just how high a bizarrely cocky they are about what they do.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I think people would respect refs more if they came out and said we’ve reviewed those decisions and think there was an error… “it happened because the ref was unsighted and var couldn’t intervene because it was outside to box”, or whatever. Currently they give the impression of trying to justify whatever they’ve done even if it’s clear there was an error. This is especially true of former refs turned pundits.

Never going to happen.

Imagine if we go on to lose the title to Liverpool by a single point, and the referee comes out and says I made an error in that game. What happens then? There is MILLIONS of pounds a stake on the outcome of that game in terms of prize money and sponsorship deals for the clubs involved, but BILLIONS worldwide in betting and advertising markets.

This is why I believe there is more to it than referee's just making 'errors'. I'm not saying brown envelopes are being dished out at every game, but we are naive to think there is zero corruption in football. Even if it's just (I I don't say just lightly) influencing spread betting (number of fouls/cards/penalties, etc.), the referee is in the perfect position to make that happen.

 

[JRockBlues]

The only way to stop perceived injustice for refereeing mistakes (or whatever) is accountability and transparency and we all know that isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[Sheik Battle and Goal]

Yeah that sounds more realistic.

£30

This is perhaps more realistic.
Source: Sport Bible 13/9/2020

Image:
Dean, Michael Oliver and Martin Atkinson all earn a reported £200,000-a-year, according to Sportekz.


Anthony Taylor and Kevin Friend, among others, earn a reported £70,000-a-year.
Lee Mason and Craig Pawson, to name but a few, earn a reported £48,000-a-year.

Referee - Per Match Fees - Salary

Mike Dean - £1,500 - £200,000
Michael Oliver - £1,500 - £200,000
Martin Atkinson - £1,500 - £200,000
Anthony Taylor - £1,500 - £70,000

Kevin Friend - £1,500 - £70,000
Chris Kavanagh - £1,500 - £70,000
Paul Tierney - £1,500 - £70,000
Jonathan Moss - £1,500 - £70,000

Andre Marriner - £1,500 - £70,000
Stuart Atwell - £1,500 - £70,000
Graham Scott - £1,500 - £48,000
Craig Pawson - £1,500 - £48,000
Lee Mason - £1,500 - £48,000
David Coote - £1,500 - £48,000
Simon Harper - £1,500 - £48,000
Peter Bankes - £1,500 - £48,000
Andy Madley - £1,500 - £48,000

It does NOT include (alleged) brown envelope payments.

If you think that the PM of this country (not withstanding how shit he is) earns around about a similar basic salary then those figures earned by referees is scandalous

 

[crazyg]

If you think that the PM of this country (not withstanding how shit he is) earns around about a similar basic salary then those figures earned by referees is scandalous

I'd turn that round if I were you, although the comparison should really should be in another thread in Off Topic. The PM of this country makes PiGMOL and all the referees under it's control look EXTREMELY competent and fully deserving of their salaries.

Just my opinion, of course, based on my observations of what I have seen and read of both parties in the discussion.

;-))

 

[Chris B]

Milner could have been sent off for his last man trip on Foden. Clearly a case for VAR in that instance. So there was a mistake in that instance. A second yellow is also a sending off is it not?

I agree on the last man trip, but often these things come down to if there’s a defender who might have been able to cover. There was one vaguely nearby so maybe that’s what they thought.

For the second yellow that wasn’t given, I should’ve been clearer in my original post: they can only intervene for a “direct red card”. Not for second yellows. Nonsensical, but that’s the var rules in the premier league.

Of course, none of this explains why the ref didn’t see it first time round.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I agree on the last man trip, but often these things come down to if there’s a defender who might have been able to cover. There was one vaguely nearby so maybe that’s what they thought.

For the second yellow that wasn’t given, I should’ve been clearer in my original post: they can only intervene for a “direct red card”. Not for second yellows. Nonsensical, but that’s the var rules in the premier league.

Of course, none of this explains why the ref didn’t see it first time round.

Fabhino was way behind the play and struggling to catch up. If Milner doesn't impeded Phil he's clear to get his shot away. Milner alone stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity, and should therefor have been considered last man and sent of for the foul. This is a red card offence and VAR SHOULD have intervened.

The referee DID see the tackle but did not deem it worthy of a card.

 

[Chris B]

Fabhino was way behind the play and struggling to catch up. If Milner doesn't impeded Phil he's clear to get his shot away. Milner alone stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity, and should therefor have been considered last man and sent of for the foul. This is a red card offence and VAR SHOULD have intervened.

The referee DID see the tackle but did not deem it worthy of a card.

I agree, but I was trying to understand what their thought process might be.

To take no action for the first one the VAT team could only have thought: 1. the ref was right?! (surely not) or 2. it should be a free kick and yellow. In both cases they can only do nothing under the VAR rules.

I’m aware I’m being very generous to them both in trying see an alternative view, and in assuming nothing else entered their thought process.

The first one the ref missed the tackle completely, the other one was a yellow all day long but not given. My point is only that once the ref has made those bizarre decisions, VAR can’t act to correct the wrong decisions because of the restrictions on when it can intervene.

 

[blue61]

I agree on the last man trip, but often these things come down to if there’s a defender who might have been able to cover. There was one vaguely nearby so maybe that’s what they thought.

For the second yellow that wasn’t given, I should’ve been clearer in my original post: they can only intervene for a “direct red card”. Not for second yellows. Nonsensical, but that’s the var rules in the premier league.

Of course, none of this explains why the ref didn’t see it first time round.

The defender in question that was covering was VVD and he was about 10 yards away I think, so unlikely to have stopped Foden having a goal scoring opportunity

It is more likely the ref didn't blow and VAR intervene, being that was a high probability of it been classed as outside the box, resulting in a free kick and a sending off.

If he was certain it was in the box then more chance of awarding the penalty. The first contact was a push outside the box and leg contact in the box.