Ref Watch

[MillionMilesAway]

Though he did pretty well, I’ll reserve judgement though until the second leg has been completed, still a bit confused about the penalty though, last I heard if it comes off your head onto your arm it’s not deemed an offence, obviously that’s changed, but when, I don’t know.

Yeah, I think that type of thing was removed, returning much of it to ref's judgement.

 

[The slaughtered lamb]

Though he did pretty well, I’ll reserve judgement though until the second leg has been completed, still a bit confused about the penalty though, last I heard if it comes off your head onto your arm it’s not deemed an offence, obviously that’s changed, but when, I don’t know.

I understood from the experts on here that it’s the way the law is applied now. I don’t bother with the rules much anymore, since var was introduced they change that often. If that’s how it’s applied, I’m more annoyed with that than the ref because it’s unjust for me.

 

[give it to gordon]

As I remember it, that wrongly awarded throw in led to their second goal. Or am a a FOC and got it wrong, again?

 

[richardtheref]

Yeah, I think that type of thing was removed, returning much of it to ref's judgement.

It hasn't changed. Makes you wonder

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I understood from the experts on here that it’s the way the law is applied now. I don’t bother with the rules much anymore, since var was introduced they change that often. If that’s how it’s applied, I’m more annoyed with that than the ref because it’s unjust for me.

Handball offences should be applied solely for playing the ball with your hand - a deliberate attempt to use your hand instead of body parts the LotG allow. If the ball hits your hand without you doing anything then it shouldn't be deemed handball. But how many time was Old Mother Riley and Andy d'Urso surrounded by Ragamuffins at the Swamp screaming for a pen that IFAB start including all kinds of 'handballs' that would never have been awarded under 'playing the ball with yer hand' laws. And the situation now is confusion heaped upon the mysterious. Won't be long before we have a raffle at the end of the warm up as to who concedes a pen from 'accidental' handball. Only football could come up with the shambles that has developed.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It hasn't changed. Makes you wonder

To make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

To make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?

PiGMOL and Uefa, if they ever explain why a handball, or penalty is awarded, or not awarded, they often end up a step from a plain contradiction. One week it's a pen, the next week it isn't, one half a pen, the other half not, one team awarded a pen, another team denied. I've seen some televised comedies from the London Palladium that don't come half way to the belly laughs these arbiters come out with.

 

[richardtheref]

To make sure I'm not misunderstanding, when you say "it hasn't changed", do you mean the proximity concept is still there, or isn't?

At the start of the season UEFA said that if the ball struck the hand following contact with another part of the body then hand ball should not be given. As far as i am aware this hasn't changed and therefore no penalty should have ensued

 

[Vic]

Everything about the ball coming off the head or body was removed this season.

Law 12 – Fouls and Misconduct

1. Direct free kick – Handling the ball

Old text (showing deletions in smaller type)

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball

• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
· scores in the opponents’ goal

· creates a goal-scoring opportunity

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
· the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
· the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the playerdeliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body



New text

Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.
It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

• scores in the opponents’ goal:
· directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
· immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental


Explanation
• Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence.
• Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation.
• Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences.

 

[bluenova]

At the start of the season UEFA said that if the ball struck the hand following contact with another part of the body then hand ball should not be given. As far as i am aware this hasn't changed and therefore no penalty should have ensued

When the deflection rule was introduced, didn't it say that it doesn't apply if the deflection doesn't make a difference? If that's changed then obviously the following is unimportant.

Looking at the replays, it appears to me that it could well have hit Laporte's arm even without the deflection, as he was spinning round, and ended up with his arm high and pretty much in line with the trajectory of the ball.

You could argue that's tricky to be sure of, but can the VAR definitely say it wouldn't have? If the ref has given it, and that's the rule, then I can't see them saying it's clear enough to overturn.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

When the deflection rule was introduced, didn't it say that it doesn't apply if the deflection doesn't make a difference? If that's changed then obviously the following is unimportant.

Looking at the replays, it appears to me that it could well have hit Laporte's arm even without the deflection, as he was spinning round, and ended up with his arm high and pretty much in line with the trajectory of the ball.

You could argue that's tricky to be sure of, but can the VAR definitely say it wouldn't have? If the ref has given it, and that's the rule, then I can't see them saying it's clear enough to overturn.

Difficult to tell as I've not seen a wide angle shot to see, but there was a Real player at the back who it may have been heading towards, at which point the strike on the arm has deflected it away. I think the law as @Vic quotes makes it ref's call.

I think @richardtheref was specifically referring to UEFA advice to referees, and not to the law as written. It's fairly common that there is suggestion as to how to ref things for competitions.

 

[bluenova]

Difficult to tell as I've not seen a wide angle shot to see, but there was a Real player at the back who it may have been heading towards, at which point the strike on the arm has deflected it away. I think the law as @Vic quotes makes it ref's call.

I think @richardtheref was specifically referring to UEFA advice to referees, and not to the law as written. It's fairly common that there is suggestion as to how to ref things for competitions.

I think the deflection not making a difference bit refers to Laporte's head, not his arm. So, if it would have hit his arm even if it hadn't bounced off his head, not whether it makes a difference after it hits his hand.

Although it looks like there's potentially updated guidance someone posted after richard.

Ultimately, while unlucky, his arm was flapping about way too high, and there were so many players around that it's probably fair to be given.

As an aside, it's a random event that could have gone anywhere and may have led to Madrid having a chance to score. I'd prefer it to be much harder to get penalties, and for the offside rule to be a lot more relaxed. Penalties mostly seem to be given in situations where it's maybe a 10% or less chance of a goal, whereas those "inches" offside goals being ruled out are unduly harsh punishment.

 

[eyalluvitt]

Stuart Attwell's family have jumped to his defence after allegations he favoured Liverpool by not giving Everton a stonewall penalty in Sunday's Merseyside Derby, sons Keegan 19 and Molby 16 who were walking the Family Dog "Collymore" in the grounds of their Nuneaton residence "Dalglish House" said .... "dad is not a cheat".

 

[manchester blue]

That worked well last night, think the ref must be fucking gutted.

He looked pretty chuffed when we scored if you watch. As though his decision was correct. Agree about him getting in the way all the time.

 

[Deleted member 87819]

 

[old blue]

If he wears a mask we are in trouble!!

 

[Don Karleone]

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

He looked pretty chuffed when we scored if you watch. As though his decision was correct. Agree about him getting in the way all the time.

There was one occasion when Mahrez was looking to pass to Foden (I think) and he just kept closing the angle as both players were looking to make space.

It was either poor spacial awareness or he was purposely trying to make it difficult. I think probably the former in this instance, but there have been referees in the past who have done this for no other reason but to screw us over.

 

[Spanishbob]

There was one occasion when Mahrez was looking to pass to Foden (I think) and he just kept closing the angle as both players were looking to make space.

It was either poor spacial awareness or he was purposely trying to make it difficult. I think probably the former in this instance, but there have been referees in the past who have done this for no other reason but to screw us over.

Pretty sure refs don’t purposely get in the way but it seems refs are having to stop games more and more often these days for the ball being trapped by them and then doing keepy ups.

 

[mat]

Which one will get the villa game then?