Ref Watch

[Chi-town blues]

Is it this one:

2021–22 Premier League referees

The Select Group is a panel of English professional football referees and assistant referees, appointed by Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). In June 2021, the Premier League announced four referee promotions and one assistant referee promotion ahead of the 2021–22 season. The...

football.fandom.com

No that’s not the one . Hopefully he still has it saved on his drive .

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

This is one of the problems with VAR, meaning it can easily be manipulated by the officials - both on the pitch, and in the VAR room.

In the case of Milner on Foden (also the stonewall penalty for Wolves against United and United's goal in that game), the referee makes an on field decision that there was no foul. Therefore no review, whether or not a foul was committed. No free kick, red card or penalty either.

Alternatively, the referee could instantly award a foul, which could also be a penalty and red card. This has to go to review, and the VAR officials generally come to the correct decision. (Walker against Southampton).

So the referee has nothing to lose by awarding the foul, because it will be corrected it he is wrong, and no damage is done. But by not awarding the foul, there is virtually no opportunity for the decision to be corrected.

United and Liverpool have both had instances of clear fouls by them not being given already this season. On the other hand, City can be penalised at the slightest risk of a transgression, and nothing other than on obvious mistake will be overturned.

The same teams benefit, the same teams suffer. I posted something from United and Liverpool forums recently, in which one fan from each of those clubs had noticed that Liverpool often benefit from refereeing errors and City suffer from them. It amounts to something when the inconsistent refereeing has become so obvious.

Brilliant summation of the issues and bias in VAR decisions!

 

[old blue]

Cast your minds back to the the Trent Alexander "handball" when they broke out and scored at our end. VAR did not intervene and to send the play back to award us the penalty. The excuse being bandied around at the time was the Scousers would have rioted. Never mind the laws just take the appeasing option. Neville Chamberlain would have approved.

 

[Henri Regnault]

£30

This is perhaps more realistic.
Source: Sport Bible 13/9/2020

Thanks Crazy, in hindsight I pulled my number from the top google search result which was, unfortunately, the Daily Star. That was a major research failure on my part.

Thttps://operations.nfl.com/officiating/the-officials/2021-roster-of-nfl-officials/

This is the roster of NFL officials. I'm in class rn and so I won't count them but it seems like many fold more than the total number retained by the premier league. And they're compensated @ 205k dollars per year before bonuses. Feels like the premier league could afford cranking up the total wage bill on the referee situation, attract some foreign talent, etc.

If having good referees was the goal, that is.

The Premier League is the biggest sporting league in the world surely? Why is the wage budget so small compared to their incredible impact on the perceived quality of the league and the outcomes within it?

 

[trublue55]

Brilliant summation of the issues and bias in VAR decisions!

This is one of the problems with VAR, meaning it can easily be manipulated by the officials - both on the pitch, and in the VAR room.

In the case of Milner on Foden (also the stonewall penalty for Wolves against United and United's goal in that game), the referee makes an on field decision that there was no foul. Therefore no review, whether or not a foul was committed. No free kick, red card or penalty either.

Alternatively, the referee could instantly award a foul, which could also be a penalty and red card. This has to go to review, and the VAR officials generally come to the correct decision. (Walker against Southampton).

So the referee has nothing to lose by awarding the foul, because it will be corrected it he is wrong, and no damage is done. But by not awarding the foul, there is virtually no opportunity for the decision to be corrected.

United and Liverpool have both had instances of clear fouls by them not being given already this season. On the other hand, City can be penalised at the slightest risk of a transgression, and nothing other than on obvious mistake will be overturned.

The same teams benefit, the same teams suffer. I posted something from United and Liverpool forums recently, in which one fan from each of those clubs had noticed that Liverpool often benefit from refereeing errors and City suffer from them. It amounts to something when the inconsistent refereeing has become so obvious.

Can someone please clarify?

My understanding was / is, that even if the referee does nothing, (effectively deeming it no foul) , VAR can still look at as Denying of Goalscoring Opportunity, and potential red, on the basis the referee has simply missed it. Surely if the referee has missed it (or thought no foul) its exactly the same as the penalty Liverpool / red card Chelsea, that initially wasn't given by Alty a couple of weeks back. If its a potential red, surely they can look at it, irrespective of what it is the referee has missed!

If thats the case, (and i believe it is), just goes to prove they can't be arsed, and refuse to give us absolutely anything.
NOTHING NEW THERE THEN!

 

[crazyg]

Thanks Crazy, in hindsight I pulled my number from the top google search result which was, unfortunately, the Daily Star. That was a major research failure on my part.

Thttps://operations.nfl.com/officiating/the-officials/2021-roster-of-nfl-officials/

This is the roster of NFL officials. I'm in class rn and so I won't count them but it seems like many fold more than the total number retained by the premier league. And they're compensated @ 205k dollars per year before bonuses. Feels like the premier league could afford cranking up the total wage bill on the referee situation, attract some foreign talent, etc.

If having good referees was the goal, that is.

The Premier League is the biggest sporting league in the world surely? Why is the wage budget so small compared to their incredible impact on the perceived quality of the league and the outcomes within it?

As the old saying goes:
"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". However, the lowest salary of £48,000 is not peanuts. It's almost double the final salary I earned before I retired 15 years ago.
They do have some standards, but seem to be either unable or incapable of raising them when called upon in stressful situations. That comes, of course, with the caveat that they are all observing the LotG as written with no bias or favour.
From what I've been observing over a number of years, I am not convinced that this is the case, and other forces are in play to influence the results of games to achieve desired results, to the general detriment of the game I love. I believe it's now called "game management".
We can all speculate as to those reasons, but they have all been mentioned by many in the past.
I'll leave it there.

 

[Coljj]

Cast your minds back to the the Trent Alexander "handball when they broke out and scored at our end. VAR did not intervene and to send the play back to award us the penalty. The excuse being bandied around at the time was the Scousers would have rioted. Never mind the laws just take the appeasing option. Neville Chamberlain would have approved.

Players kick the ball out for injured players. We need to stop the game (foul or into touch) to put pressure on VAR review.

 

[richardtheref]

PL refs make ~40k pounds, US football referees (and there are a ton of them per match) make 205k dollars. Think if we paid more for referees we would see a better talent pipeline for accuracy and accountability.

I don't necessarily think exposing referees to criticism by the baying mob is the best solution. Judges are typically given lifetime tenure for a reason. Some amount of insulation from "politics" is better for the smaller teams.

Adding onto this, if we think the big old boys in red are getting favorable treatment now, imagine a world where referees are under direct and formal review by any reviewing body, do we think that this would lead to less favoritism or more for the red teams? I think I have to go with "more" on this one...

Henri. You are wrong. I went to a talk by one of the best refs at the time (about 10 years ago). At the time PL refs got a £80k retainer by the PL. On top of that they got £2.5k par game they officiated in, be it ref or 4th official. They would be expected to ref 28-36 games a season. Now if you were also on the UEFA list you would receive a £50l retainer and £10k per per CL game and £5k for Europa. These days you also get £2k to be VAR.

Also every single decision is analysed by at least 3 people. If they fall below a certain level they will be given lesser games. Once over you would be "rested" but as they are short of PL refs, like lorry drivers, not likely to happen.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Henri. You are wrong. I went to a talk by one of the best refs at the time (about 10 years ago). At the time PL refs got a £80k retainer by the PL. On top of that they got £2.5k par game they officiated in, be it ref or 4th official. They would be expected to ref 28-36 games a season. Now if you were also on the UEFA list you would receive a £50l retainer and £10k per per CL game and £5k for Europa. These days you also get £2k to be VAR.

Also every single decision is analysed by at least 3 people. If they fall below a certain level they will be given lesser games. Once over you would be "rested" but as they are short of PL refs, like lorry drivers, not likely to happen.

So no chance ofTierney being " rested " then despite his abysmal / corrupt performance .

 

[BamberBridgeBlue]

So no chance ofTierney being " rested " then despite his abysmal / corrupt performance .

It’s systemic. I’ve noticed, not just this season but in previous ones too, the opposition will generally commit 2-3 fouls before Manchester City do. No issues so far, the referee blows for a foul, not every foul is a yellow card. The first Manchester City foul almost always ends up with the City player getting a yellow card.