Ref Watch

hgblue said:
What would be your explanation for how Madley came to the conclusion that it wasn’t a penalty?
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It's all speculation, but based on evidence. Madley and PGMOL have remained silent, so we don't have their official view to consider.

But yes, I do think that VAR officials and match officials seem to have a bias against us. Sometimes that is understandable - like if we are playing a lower league team in a cup, but that isn't specifically against City.

On other occasions, it might be just giving the benefit of the doubt to the lower placed team. That is understandable too.

But on this occasion, Moss has already set his threshold for what constitutes a penalty, by awarding one for the incident against Laporte. With that being the context, there is absolutely no reason not to at least recommend that Moss should look at the pitchside monitor. Madley could have done that and absolved himself of blame. He didn't, so it is all on him as far as I'm concerned.

Did Madley think it was a penalty but not enough of an error for him to overturn? We don't know.

Did Madley think it wasn't a penalty at all? We don't know.

Is Madley, who is fairly inexperienced, being influenced by someone in higher authority to not give City decisions? We don't know, but my money would be on this one.
 
Paladin said:
It's all speculation, but based on evidence. Madley and PGMOL have remained silent, so we don't have their official view to consider.

But yes, I do think that VAR officials and match officials seem to have a bias against us. Sometimes that is understandable - like if we are playing a lower league team in a cup, but that isn't specifically against City.

On other occasions, it might be just giving the benefit of the doubt to the lower placed team. That is understandable too.

But on this occasion, Moss has already set his threshold for what constitutes a penalty, by awarding one for the incident against Laporte. With that being the context, there is absolutely no reason not to at least recommend that Moss should look at the pitchside monitor. Madley could have done that and absolved himself of blame. He didn't, so it is all on him as far as I'm concerned.

Did Madley think it was a penalty but not enough of an error for him to overturn? We don't know.

Did Madley think it wasn't a penalty at all? We don't know.

Is Madley, who is fairly inexperienced, being influenced by someone in higher authority to not give City decisions? We don't know, but my money would be on this one.
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Moss thought once Foden got up Var will do it’s job if foden didn’t get up Moss would of blown but if told Madley that he thought there goalie got toe to it he is bent Bob note.
 
waspish said:
Moss thought once Foden got up Var will do it’s job if foden didn’t get up Moss would of blown but if told Madley that he thought there goalie got toe to it he is bent Bob note.
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I do think Moss left it for VAR but even in that he was wrong,the goalie still stopped him getting to the lose ball, so was still a penalty, that he should have seen, He should have given the penalty and let VAR try to disprove it, he did that with the penalty but not with the KDB penalty shout, both being the same but different outcomes, since he used different approaches.
 
niall'sdiscoshorts said:
If Moss was that unsure he could of gone and had a look at the monitor himself, he chose not to.
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Who has said Moss was unsure? Moss made his call, which he probably thought was correct. Referees don't run to the monitor to double check their decisions. They rely on their colleagues to tell them they may have made a mistake.
 
Be interesting to see how we’re ref’d today.

I think they have been so used to screwing us for so long, with no media scrutiny, that the outcry over Foden’s penalty will really but the heeby jeebies up pigmol. It would be absolutely brazen for the blatant corruption to continue in the next few games.
 
@BluePhil8 said:
Be interesting to see how we’re ref’d today.

I think they have been so used to screwing us for so long, with no media scrutiny, that the outcry over Foden’s penalty will really but the heeby jeebies up pigmol. It would be absolutely brazen for the blatant corruption to continue in the next few games.
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I tend to agree with this.

Liverpool had the benefit last season, and took full advantage. United have had the benefit this season, but we blew them away anyway. They have no excuse to carry on with teething problems in the third season. United had their chance, but perhaps they won't get another, especially as they are consulting clubs on how the system might be improved.
 
Paladin said:
Who has said Moss was unsure? Moss made his call, which he probably thought was correct. Referees don't run to the monitor to double check their decisions. They rely on their colleagues to tell them they may have made a mistake.
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It was clear from the replays they were repeating from the refs view was the suggestion that from behind Foden the keeper could have got a touch, which isn't backed up from the rear or side angles though.

Depends on an interpretation of clear and obvious, and also there will never ever be consistency, not least with a presumption in favour of the refs original decision.

I think the actual problem was the ref was 40 yards from the incident and would have to guess either way, but the lino should have helped out like they used to as the side angle was better to judge the incident.
 
Corky said:
It was clear from the replays they were repeating from the refs view was the suggestion that from behind Foden the keeper could have got a touch, which isn't backed up from the rear or side angles though.

Depends on an interpretation of clear and obvious, and also there will never ever be consistency, not least with a presumption in favour of the refs original decision.

I think the actual problem was the ref was 40 yards from the incident and would have to guess either way, but the lino should have helped out like they used to as the side angle was better to judge the incident.
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Absolutely. There was nothing stopping the linesman from calling a foul and a penalty. But I still think Madley is most at fault. At minimum, he should have asked Moss to go to the monitor.
 
Paladin said:
I tend to agree with this.

Liverpool had the benefit last season, and took full advantage. United have had the benefit this season, but we blew them away anyway. They have no excuse to carry on with teething problems in the third season. United had their chance, but perhaps they won't get another, especially as they are consulting clubs on how the system might be improved.
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I hope you are right but you do remember how utd got themselves into a CL spot last season?, and as we know consulting clubs will still be edited in the corridors of power. question is will we be in that corridor.
 
Fully expect the Moss and Madley combination to turn up again if we get to the FA Cup Semis against the Rags.
 
I think the VAR team are failing to grasp that when they are interpreting decisions on whether a referee should be advised to change his onfield decision, they are becoming confused as to whether 'clear and obvious' is in regard to the referees reasoning or whether it's to deal with the event.

Yes, it could be argued that Moss considered the keeper may have touched the ball in a fast developing incident, and the fact Foden didn't look for the penalty also perhaps convinced Moss not to award it. What the problem is however, is that VAR appears to have analysed the footage with an aim to justify why Moss concluded what he did, rather than to tell Moss his conclusion was wrong! In short, that's the flaw, it's being used by the Referees to justify why shite decisions are made rather than rectify them.
 
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Paladin said:
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But yes, I do think that VAR officials and match officials seem to have a bias against us. Sometimes that is understandable - like if we are playing a lower league team in a cup, but that isn't specifically against City.

On other occasions, it might be just giving the benefit of the doubt to the lower placed team. That is understandable too...
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Refs have to treat any team/club in the same way, no matter what league or how great/poor they are.

Refs have to care for the rules (and many rules are shite and many are interpreted in a wrong way) to guarantee the integrity of the game.

A penalty must be a penalty, and if Bayern get 14 penalties vs say Bielefeld that's ok - IF the calls are all correct. No wrong mercy. Only rules matter, nothing else.

Ref bias should never be understandable.
 
On the BBC the reporter for the WBA match states that 'Mike Dean ORDERED the match referee to go and watch the pitchside monitor.'
It might have been an unfortunate choice of words but l do not like the thought of anyone especially Dean who can influence match allocations ordering someone to look again. If Dean thinks the decision is wrong just say so so that everyone knows.
 
St.Pauli support said:
Refs have to treat any team/club in the same way, no matter what league or how great/poor they are.

Refs have to care for the rules (and many rules are shite and many are interpreted in a wrong way) to guarantee the integrity of the game.

A penalty must be a penalty, and if Bayern get 14 penalties vs say Bielefeld that's ok - IF the calls are all correct. No wrong mercy. Only rules matter, nothing else.

Ref bias should never be understandable.
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I agree. When I say bias, I mean in an almost subconscious sense, but sometimes just out of common sense.

For example, Southampton had a player sent off against United, when they had already had a player dismissed in the second minute of the game, and were losing 6-0 at the time. The offence was a marginal one, and the dismissal was subsequently overturned. So why did Mike Dean think it was ok to send the player off in the circumstances? Surely, give the benefit of any doubt to Southampton. United scored three further goals against mine men. The integrity of the referee, or The Laws of the Game would not have been compromised.
 
Paladin said:
I agree. When I say bias, I mean in an almost subconscious sense, but sometimes just out of common sense.

For example, Southampton had a player sent off against United, when they had already had a player dismissed in the second minute of the game, and were losing 6-0 at the time. The offence was a marginal one, and the dismissal was subsequently overturned. So why did Mike Dean think it was ok to send the player off in the circumstances? Surely, give the benefit of any doubt to Southampton. United scored three further goals against mine men. The integrity of the referee, or The Laws of the Game would not have been compromised.
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What have the LotG got to do with the refereeing of the rags?
 
Norbiton said:
So far this evening we’re seeing the usual soft calls, go into the back of a Fulham player and it’s a free kick but into the back of a City player is absolutely fine.
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Honestly mate it’s not worth getting worked up over. We win everything ourselves like Pep said.

That and obviously the help from the sport washing, dodgy, maybe fake, maybe printed from your local library money
 
Norbiton said:
So far this evening we’re seeing the usual soft calls, go into the back of a Fulham player and it’s a free kick but into the back of a City player is absolutely fine.
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Marriner is always terrible (aren’t they all?) but his performance tonight has been incredible. Every game for us now is like a 3rd round FA cup tie where the underdogs are allowed to kick the shit out of us, whilst we breathe on an opponent and it’s a foul. Reed for them has committed 3 fouls already worthy of a Ferny yellow card.
 
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