Religion

journolud said:
People eh, what are they like?

Meanwhile I read today that Donald Trump is still grifting, probably the fault of politics and some guy out of Arcade Fire has been accused of sexual misconduct or whatever. Music must be to blame for that
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Well yes, they are. Politics is notoriously corrupt, which is why it is subject to massive checks and balances, whereas religion typically sees itself as above all that, or at the very least loves to keep that sort of thing internal rather than involving wider society when, for example, there are cases of mass child abuse. Meanwhile the music industry (and celebrity more widely) also has problems related to the balance of power between famous and very profitable musicians and their adoring fans. These are systemic issues with the way that certain industries operate, often with very little oversight and massive incentives to cover up cases of abuse (which is why people like Jimmy Savile or R Kelly are able to get away with it for so long in a way that the ordinary bloke on the street couldn't).

But religion is unique, because with something like music, you work on your talent, release your music, and the fame, influence and notoriety is a bi-product (which some then abuse). You sell your music and that's the arrangement. Religion is different, because the influence is the goal. You sell your philosophy with the aim of influencing how people live, typically based on very little substance or expertise. The pope has as much genuine insight into the nature of God as you or me, yet he presents himself as the supreme and sole authority on earth on the matter.

The influence over people in built into the whole concept, and it requires absolutely zero real expertise, and as such, it's particularly vulnerable to grifters and charlatans (as opposed to people who genuinely believe what they're preaching). It's the same reason that you're likely to find far more dodgy characters in the alternative medicine field, where easily-attained online degrees are rife, than you are in the medical field, where you have to study for 6 years and pass proper exams. It's a systemic problem, not a "people, eh?" problem.
 
Marklr said:
Yeah, you're right...I avoid Islam too because of that. But I don't think I'm too far off with what I said... Christians like to pick and choose which parts of the OT to believe...and what they're more comfortable with.
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There was a fun one recently with all the American Republicans throwing their toys out of the pram about student debt being cancelled. Deuteronomy says to cancel all debts after 7 years.
 
Marklr said:
So basically none of it can be trusted. It's that fucked up. Also, Christians must agree with slavery, as their god more or less endorses it.
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Well, no, the Christian Bible doesn’t endorse slavery. Slavery is permitted in Leviticus which is the Jewish Torah but the context around it is only for that set of people for that time.

Leviticus is a brutal book to be honest but it’s not a Christian book.
 
Octavian said:
Christians who aren’t Jews are told in the New Testament not to keep to Torah tradition, other than the 10 commandments, which is still only a guide that everyone will fall short on.

It isn’t phrased quite like “love me or burn” but Jesus does say in the Gospels “the only way to the father is through me” so yes the meaning of what you’ve said is right and no it’s not moral.

However Jesus didn’t endorse slavery, you’re wrong about that one. What he was quoted as saying in the Gospels is around the whole turning the other cheek thing rather than saying slavery is good.

I think for a leader of the time, in the first century, Jesus was very moral compared to other leaders, if what he said was properly followed politically, history would have been a lot better.

That doesn’t mean he’s the son of god of course and the hell thing is just plain wrong, but a lot of it about how to behave here and now is very moral stuff.
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Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

New Living Translation
You who are slaves must submit to your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you—not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.

English Standard Version
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

Berean Study Bible
Servants, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but even to those who are unreasonable.

Berean Literal Bible
Servants, be subject to masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the unreasonable.

King James Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

New King James Version
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

New American Standard Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are harsh.

NASB 1995
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

NASB 1977
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

Amplified Bible
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all [proper] respect, not only to those who are good and kind, but also to those who are unreasonable.

Christian Standard Bible
Household slaves, submit to your masters with all reverence not only to the good and gentle ones but also to the cruel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Household slaves, submit with all fear to your masters, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.

American Standard Version
Servants, be in subjection to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
To those who are Servants among you: Submit to your masters in reverence, not only to the good and to the meek, but also to the severe and to the perverse;

Contemporary English Version
Servants, you must obey your masters and always show respect to them. Do this, not only to those who are kind and thoughtful, but also to those who are cruel.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Good News Translation
You servants must submit yourselves to your masters and show them complete respect, not only to those who are kind and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

International Standard Version
You household servants must submit yourselves to your masters out of respect, not only to those who are kind and fair, but also to those who are unjust.

Literal Standard Version
Servants, be subject in all fear to the masters, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked;

New American Bible
Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.

NET Bible
Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are perverse.

New Revised Standard Version
Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.

New Heart English Bible
Servants, be in subjection to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the wicked.
 
Magicpole said:
Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

New Living Translation
You who are slaves must submit to your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you—not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.

English Standard Version
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

Berean Study Bible
Servants, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but even to those who are unreasonable.

Berean Literal Bible
Servants, be subject to masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the unreasonable.

King James Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

New King James Version
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

New American Standard Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are harsh.

NASB 1995
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

NASB 1977
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.

Amplified Bible
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all [proper] respect, not only to those who are good and kind, but also to those who are unreasonable.

Christian Standard Bible
Household slaves, submit to your masters with all reverence not only to the good and gentle ones but also to the cruel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Household slaves, submit with all fear to your masters, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.

American Standard Version
Servants, be in subjection to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
To those who are Servants among you: Submit to your masters in reverence, not only to the good and to the meek, but also to the severe and to the perverse;

Contemporary English Version
Servants, you must obey your masters and always show respect to them. Do this, not only to those who are kind and thoughtful, but also to those who are cruel.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Good News Translation
You servants must submit yourselves to your masters and show them complete respect, not only to those who are kind and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

International Standard Version
You household servants must submit yourselves to your masters out of respect, not only to those who are kind and fair, but also to those who are unjust.

Literal Standard Version
Servants, be subject in all fear to the masters, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked;

New American Bible
Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.

NET Bible
Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are perverse.

New Revised Standard Version
Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh.

New Heart English Bible
Servants, be in subjection to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the wicked.
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You are aware that’s Peter and not Jesus in the Gospels, right?

Nice copy and paste job but that doesn’t endorse slavery, it’s in line with doing well to those who do badly to you.

Peter 2:19 goes on to say “For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God.”

It’s not telling people to take slaves.

Also, slaves back then weren’t slaves like the transatlantic slave trade, poor people would choose to go into slavery in the ancient Roman Empire to guarantee shelter and food for their labour.

The industry was completely different, although I’m not claiming it was moral, it just wasn’t as bad as the African slave trade in the new world.
 
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