Don’t apologise :-) if you live your life in a religious way then you are by definition religious, you can live that way without having strong beliefs. I suppose it’s a discussion around definitions and behaviours.
I am religious but also disagree with a lot of things that churches and people who claim to be religious do (including myself at times).To turn that the other way round, the people who are religious and are kiddy fiddles, fraudsters, war mongers etc arent religious and are using religion for their behaviours.
I am 100% non religious but choose to live my life differently to alot of religious people, who I dont agree with what they do, or the cover ups by the church. ;)
I meant count in the 53%. I would argue she should be in there for someone who attends church but doesn’t really take anything away from it.Who mentioned counting ? I said out of interest.
@give it to gordon In relation to the Salvation Army. In the UK they seem brilliant. if you ignore the tambourines and uniform, their work with the homeless etc is great, but, there is always a but, I went to New York for a wander round. As I wandered I walked past the head office of the Salvation Army, it was in a very expensive area of N.Y. and was one of the largest, poshest buildings I have ever seen for a so called non profit, religious 'company'.That's start my saying I am not religious.
My dad was, on his death bed the hospice bought a preacher in to say prayers as my dad was withering around in bed in so much pain from cancer. I can remember watching with this anger build up inside of me. I dont understand if you believe in a god why is he making my dad suffer so much.
My missus is religious, not the church going type apart from xmas eve ( I wait in the local pub ).
She watches religious films and programs. One day I just said this film is like a 2000 year old Harry Potter film, parting the sea, two fish to feed hundreds. I just got that look !
Now I have been working closely with the Salvation Army, helping with the food banks and doing any thing to help. This has been though work I add.
They are really nice people and do great work, and are just normal people who you can have a laugh with.
I dont like the religious groups that want the ram their beliefs down your throat. I find them scary.
I dont like the way the local church is always wanting to raise money to repair the roof and these little old ladies give money etc. The CofE is so wealthy, owns land, churches, etc yet it expects the poorest and perhaps the most vulnerable to give them money.
I am just very wary of people who want to believe in something they have never seen. A book written 2000 years ago.
If it brings people happiness etc than I have no problems with that. But I read of child abuse within the church, those American preachers that con money out of people and these organisations want me to live like that and give them money, jog on !
I believe in living a good life, helping out people, being polite and kind just being nice and thoughtful. Just trying to be a decent human being. I dont need a 2000 year book and rules for that !.
yes and thats what i see religion does it takes advantage of the poor, weak and vulnerable, yes it helps them but also takes from them. The sally army does great work with the homeless etc in the uk but as you say its not all great.@give it to gordon In relation to the Salvation Army. In the UK they seem brilliant. if you ignore the tambourines and uniform, their work with the homeless etc is great, but, there is always a but, I went to New York for a wander round. As I wandered I walked past the head office of the Salvation Army, it was in a very expensive area of N.Y. and was one of the largest, poshest buildings I have ever seen for a so called non profit, religious 'company'.
The building said to me that all those hard working volunteers were being fleeced by the bosses and to me is just the same as all the other religions.
Fleecing the poor for the benefit of a few.
That makes no sense though, because in the history of Africa, Christianity has depicted them as a curse, pegan and savages. They have also forced people to convert and if not killed them. You have of Christian leaders such as the pope and Mohammed himself doing and saying disgusting things about Africans.Don’t want to get into too much discussion about it because I feel it’s been done to death on what is now a very circular and depressing thread but I would contend that religion has been the excuse for barbarism but not the cause.
I see that with most charities, I work for a few different ones , 1 little office , there have to have the heating on 24 degress , another charity have it on 24/ to keep office warm for the paid staff members@give it to gordon In relation to the Salvation Army. In the UK they seem brilliant. if you ignore the tambourines and uniform, their work with the homeless etc is great, but, there is always a but, I went to New York for a wander round. As I wandered I walked past the head office of the Salvation Army, it was in a very expensive area of N.Y. and was one of the largest, poshest buildings I have ever seen for a so called non profit, religious 'company'.
The building said to me that all those hard working volunteers were being fleeced by the bosses and to me is just the same as all the other religions.
Fleecing the poor for the benefit of a few.
You clearly know more than me about the historical context here and I’ll defer to you. My comment really was aimed at the lazy generalisations people make blaming the actions of people on a conceptThat makes no sense though, because in the history of Africa, Christianity has depicted them as a curse, pegan and savages. They have also forced people to convert and if not killed them. You have of Christian leaders such as the pope and Mohammed himself doing and saying disgusting things about Africans.
don’t get me wrong, I understand both religion have had individuals doing good things. But you can’t just ignore centralism of religion when coming in contact with africa. It’s an excuse to say religion has been a tool for excuse.
mohammed sold slave, African history had the Arabic slave trade. I don’t see the excuse?
Christianity considers African spirituality as pegan, the pope gave the go ahead for the slave trade of Africans as they were considered uncivilised. I don’t see the excuse? Just people people believing in their religion. This still happens today.
But then don’t claim that you are the salvation for humanity and condemn others to hell because they don’t agree with your salvation? That sounds like a needy god.The problem with organised religion is that it is always abused by humans on a power trip. However, it does cater to the spiritual side of human beings (which is part of us) that many of us deny having. It also does a lot of good work at what might be called 'the local level.' I bet there isn't a church, synagogue, mosque or temple in our city that does not do some good for someone. Often via charitable work, support to the community, whatever you like to call it. Some of it is quite subtle, like providing a meeting place. Some is more obvious 'doing stuff' for people in need.
How you cut out the cancer of abusers - people who exploit their power and position in the religion to advance themselves or do evil shit like child abuse - I do not know. But all human organisations are similar. You will find good people in charities, local government, political parties - you name it. You will also find utter twats, some of whom should be in jail. It's humanity that's the problem.
The big problem is religion attempts to describe/put in place the 'rules' of how humanity should behave.The problem with organised religion is that it is always abused by humans on a power trip. However, it does cater to the spiritual side of human beings (which is part of us) that many of us deny having. It also does a lot of good work at what might be called 'the local level.' I bet there isn't a church, synagogue, mosque or temple in our city that does not do some good for someone. Often via charitable work, support to the community, whatever you like to call it. Some of it is quite subtle, like providing a meeting place. Some is more obvious 'doing stuff' for people in need.
How you cut out the cancer of abusers - people who exploit their power and position in the religion to advance themselves or do evil shit like child abuse - I do not know. But all human organisations are similar. You will find good people in charities, local government, political parties - you name it. You will also find utter twats, some of whom should be in jail. It's humanity that's the problem.
We are told that by the likes of Greta Thunberg, and she doesn't use religion as an excuse for imposing her views, although she does get on my wick.The big problem is religion attempts to describe/put in place the 'rules' of how humanity should behave.
Yeah totally agree, there are many places we get rules imposed on us thats for sure! I guess I was trying to say that religion is all about what these rules are and how they should apply to humans, "Thou shalt" and "Thou shalt not" as examples.We are told that by the likes of Greta Thunberg, and she doesn't use religion as an excuse for imposing her views, although she does get on my wick.
Religion isn't the only imposer of rules.
There are people that genuinely care for your welfare, because of their evolved human nature. If the only reason they think they care is because religion tells them to…then they’re screwed in the head.All political philosophies (including the one we are living under) tell you how to live your life. Governments in the 21st century have far more power than any religion. As do the shady corporate interests that dictate to national governments, especially weak, isolated national governments like ours.
Does anyone seriously believe that Rupert Murdoch is not telling us how to live our lives? Of course he is! His pulpit is the propaganda put about in the Sun and his other outlets. He tells you who to love and particularly who to hate. The difference is, some religious people (not all admittedly) genuinely care for your welfare. Murdoch and his ilk don't give a shit, they just manipulate you for their own advantage. They literally don't care if you die in the gutter as long as they pay less tax.
There are religions and religions. Not all say you will go to hell if you don't sign up for their brand. Not even the Pope says that these days.
He was most likely talking about your ancestors though.That’s a great quote.