Religion

Fode N The Hole said:
If there was a higher intelligence isn't it likely that trying to understand it would be as pointless as trying to teach your dog algebra.

Or you could consume all the knowledge, but like in Indiana Jones and the crystal skull it be too complex for you to process and understand and you would go mad.

So it's pointless to even think about.
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if, buts and maybes, all we can judge is what is in front of us
 
tonea2003 said:
just your opinion art and what you tend to believe but nothing demonstrable
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It’s what I experience and try (and can fail many a time, but that’s part of too) to practice in life. It’s not a dogma to force on you or anyone else. It is another way to be with the question of religion. It aims to go beyond just words and ideas. And it is not what might be called the most popular choice. So be it.
Edit : oh, and nothing is demonstrable to someone who refuses to see ;)
 
arfurclue said:
It’s what I experience and try (and can fail many a time, but that’s part of too) to practice in life. It’s not a dogma to force on you or anyone else. It is another way to be with the question of religion. It aims to go beyond just words and ideas. And it is not what might be called the most popular choice. So be it.
Edit : oh, and nothing is demonstrable to someone who refuses to see ;)
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just your opinion art ;-)

if there was to be anything transcendental then i'd be interested just like most other humans
 
tonea2003 said:
just your opinion art and what you tend to believe but nothing demonstrable
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Borrowing this from an earlier post from @ZenHalfTimeCrock . Even Hitchens might have been said to be aware of this beauty, even though he may use different words to describe it. A move away from an intellectual discussion about the merits of theology, to a practice of coming to feel how deeply one can open to that beauty or finding a way to move through any resistance to the beauty…and seeing where that leads.

”In support of his argument, Evans actually quotes Hitchens, who shortly before he died surprisingly admitted, ‘I’m a materialist…yet there is something beyond the material or not entirely consistent with it, what you would call the Numinous, the Transcendent, or at best the Ecstatic…It’s in certain music, landscape, certain creative work; without this we really would merely be primates.’”
 
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Magicpole said:
All very well and a nice piece of tapdancing, but the question remains. If there is such a higher 8ntelligence, why can't you provide a scintilla of evidence? Why the big mystery? I take it you think hes Christian? Aga8n why? Why is your b99k better than sll the others? Why arent you a believer in Zeus, Ra, Horus, the multitude of Hindu gods? Why do you dismiss them? What evidence do you have they arent real? Do you believe Noah lived nesrly 1,000 years? That every animal 9n tje planet made to.the middle east to be saved? Or is you ego so overwhelming that it ignores facts and the absolute truth of our planet and where it stands, that the guy who is so intelligent created but his book.is nothing but a collection of myths that were accepted truths to men at the time? Its made up. Or if it isn't,prove it. I can prove the earth otbits the sun. Can you prove thst in the last dsys the stars will fall to earth. They look so small because they are so far away. You would think god might have inown they were stars since he obviousy created them.
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I believe in the power of whiskey.
Having finger trouble Magic?
 
Fode N The Hole said:
But aren't you just being egotistical in taking that stance...there's too much to understand I can't possibly understand it all, therefore no one else can, not even human beings as a collective.

Too clever by half, no?

:)
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It’s ok to say, I just don’t know.
Without filling in the gaps with nonsense.
 
arfurclue said:
The ego will basically decide whether something will feed its vanity or not. It will accept what feeds it and reject what doesn’t. This egotism may then be dressed up in the clothes of ‘science’ and claim that all true scientists support what it says - even if shown quotes of heralded scientists who are open to the idea of Divinity. So, stay closed to even the possibility of a greater intelligence if you want but here’s a thing- in choosing egoic vanity one also gets to be unaware of a deeper beauty that can inspire and enrich life in many ways. That’s a choice for each being (or not) but trying to prove that to a closed ego is a waste of time. You can enjoy being right though and live life in a way that never goes beyond skin deep. Merry Xmas.
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Sorry Arfur, but every time you write this is the image I get in my head.
1640380744856.jpegYou should start all your posts with;
Ah, Grasshopper!

You are Master Po and I claim my fiver.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Sorry Arfur, but every time you write this is the image I get in my head.
View attachment 32643You should start all your posts with;
Ah, Grasshopper!

You are Master Po and I claim my fiver.
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Lmao. And am not a poet either but here’s a few words from someone who was…
“The very centre of your heart is where life begins - the most beautiful place on earth.”
― Rumi
 
1.618034 said:
What do you/they mean by "heart"?
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From what I understand, heart can be read on different levels - from the heart of All being to, as I experience it, an area in the center of the chest near the physical heart. Others may read it differently. Mainly for me though it would speak of the essence of earth being beautiful, even though it may be appear to be forgotten more in some places/people than others at times. (yes, I can be forgetful for sure). It can also be an idea to read the poems of Rumi and see what, if anything, it does for each person.

edit : from a book on meditation from a different tradition

“Exercise : Exploring the inner heart

Perhaps you would like to try this. Close your eyes, and let your attention move gradually down toward the inner center behind the breastbone, a few inches to the right of the physical heart. You can start by focusing on the front of your breastbone, about eight finger-widths below the U-shaped bone at the base of your throat. Then, imagine a plumb line dropping from just behind your nostrils into the middle of the chest, behind this spot on the breastbone. Let the breath flow in and out to that spot. Feel and sense the energy there, in the inner body, behind the breastbone. Without judgment, notice how the energy feels there in the heart-center. It might feel soft or prickly, melting or hard. For now, let the inhalation flow from the nostrils down into the heart center, and flow back up from the heart before it passes out through the nostrils.”

also from a different book

“The ideograph for “heart” is a picture of a human heart: xin, . It means heart, mind, intention, center, core, intelligence, and soul all at once. The ideograph for beauty is mei, , meaning beautiful, satisfactory, good, or pleasing. It combines the sign for ram, , over a glyph, , that means big, vast, great, large, or high. Perhaps we might picture a flock of sheep in a pastoral setting as the symbol of beauty. In earlier times, however, older forms of the word showed a feathered headdress on a person. Beauty was a shaman crowned with feathers—someone dancing with all their heart.”

— The Way of Heart and Beauty: The Tao of Daily Life by Deng Ming-Dao
 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
Sorry Arfur, but every time you write this is the image I get in my head.
View attachment 32643You should start all your posts with;
Ah, Grasshopper!

You are Master Po and I claim my fiver.
Click to expand...

Whenever I see this that this thread has risen to the top of page one of Off Topic, this song starts playing in my head:




As far as Master Po is concerned, ancient Chinese Taoist philosophy (an influence on the Shaolin) - especially the writings of the 3rd Century BC anarchist Chuang Tzu - can be extraordinarily subtle and profound. Even a couple of minutes exposure to the eponymously titled Chuang Tzu in Burton Watson's scintillating translation is more than enough to get the flavour of this remarkable outpouring of freewheeling mysticism.


Chapter 2 is the one to go for.

Lao Tzu's more famous Tao Te Ching is far less interesting but still worth a look. Taught it when it was a set text for the philosophy component in the International Baccalaureate course. There are loads of English translations and Arthur Waley's is probably the best. But I like this one which is an attempt to render the Chinese in the style of Mamet and Tarantino.


Along with the Chandogya Upanishad, Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamikakarikas, and the Shobogenzo of Dogen, for my money the Chuang Tzu is one of the finest pieces of spiritually-infused philosophical writing in any language.
 
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A pile of shite that has caused a lot of trouble in history and the here and now and no doubt in the future.

Odd that most religions believe they are peaceful.
 
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